Go To Other online Documents in this lawsuit.

See the Proper Method of Removal and Installation of the replacement windows John Tabor was selling to see how obviously it was not done by the manufacturers instructions.
Keep in mind when you read this deposition, the Mack Hilton spoken of here by John Tabor is the same Gary Michael Hilton who murdered Meredith Emerson in Jan. 2008. The John Tabor here is the same person who employed a possible Seriel Killer for nearly 10 years. According to both Hilton and Tabor, Tabor housed him for nearly 10 years. (see the real truth of their relationship that he tried to hide from the public that is found in the GBI records) So what did John Tabor know even early in 2007 that he felt it was important to hide this guy, Mack Hilton? What eles is he not telling the whole truth about? You be the Judge!

Meet the real John J. Tabor who now does business under the name Tabor Construction (fka Insulated Wall Systems). Also check out his craigslist postings (a sample shown below the deposition) regarding the McKinney's to see just what kind of person he really is. No matter what he claims to have won, Not a single DIME is or was or wil ever be lawfully owed to him. As shown in the photos all the work done was replaced and done right and was paid for to those who did it right! The real reason for this defamation claim is his pure vindictiveness and revenge upon those who dared to stand up to him. You have now been warned.
                STATE OF GEORGIA

             Plaintiff,      )
                             ) CIVIL ACTION FILE
      vs.                    ) NO:  05A-06942-9
RON MCKINNEY,                )
             Defendant.      )

                     - - -

         Deposition of JOHN TABOR,

taken on behalf of the Defendant, pursuant to the

stipulations, agreed to herein, before

Meredith B. Cohen, Certified Court Reporter and

Notary Public at 3025 Bethany Church Road,

Snellville, Georgia, on the 6th day of February,

2007, commencing at 10:03 a.m.

             1119 BRASELTON HIGHWAY
                 (770) 822-9888



 1                     I N D E X

 2  EXAMINATION                                 PAGE

 3  By Mr. McKinney..............................6

 4  By Ms. Tabor.................................147



 7                  E X H I B I T S

 8  EXHIBIT NO.       DESCRIPTION            PAGE

 9     1              Notice to take        15
                      Deposition of
10                    Plaintiff
11     2              Postcard               15, 16,  
                                             33, 35,                
12                                           50, 51
13     3              Business Card          16
14     4              Contract               16, 33,                
                                         35, 50,    
15                                       56, 67,        
                                             72, 114                                    
       5              Gwinnett County        17, 55
17                    Construction Code
18     5A             Gwinnett County        18, 55
                      Construction Code
19                    Original Document
       6              IRC - International    17
21                    Residential Code
22     6A             IRC - International    18
                      Residential Code
23                    Original Document
24     7              Gwinnett County Deck   18, 88,
                      Additions              91


 1                E X H I B I T S (Continued)

 2  EXHIBIT NO.       DESCRIPTION            PAGE

 3     8              Gwinnett County        19
                      Home Addition
 4                    Monolithic Slab
 5     9              VSI - Vinyl Siding     19, 126
                      Installation Manual    127, 143
       10             GreenGuard Housewrap   19
 7                    Production Guide &
       11             GreenGuard Fanfold     20, 137
 9                    Installation Guide
10     12             Insulated Wall         20, 117,
                      Systems Window Order  
11                    Form
12     13             Three Letters to       20
                      Plaintiff from
13                    Defendant
14     14             Plaintiff's Letter to  22
       15             Copy of Lien           22
       16             Complaint              22
       17             Grover Contract and    22
18                    Lien
19     18             Beniger Contract and   23
                      Lien and Letter
       19             Gooch Building         23, 78,
21                    Consultants            79, 80,
                      Inspection Report -    87, 88,
22                    Gooch                  98, 114
23     20             House Smart Home       25, 78,
                      Inspection Report -    79, 86,                            
24                    Cook                   87, 114


 1               E X H I B I T S (Continued)
 2  EXHIBIT NO.       DESCRIPTION            PAGE
 3     21             Champia ASHI           25, 93
                      Inspection Report -    114
 4                    Berlyoung
 5     22             ASHI Standards of      26
                      Practice and Code      
 6                    of Ethics
 7     23             Atrium Letter -        27, 117,  
                      Chris Reilly           119
       24             Sequoyah Statement -   28
 9                    Vaungh            
10     25             Hardscapes Slab Redo   29
                      Quote - Beaty
       26             Decks by Jeff -        30
12                    Pettigrew
13     27             Collection of          30, 84,  
                      32 pages of            87, 99,
14                    photographs            111,          
15                                           145                  
16     28             Series 60 Window       30, 31,
                      Brochure (Back Page)   120
       28A            Series 60 Window       31, 120
18                    Brochure - Original    
       29             Physical Injury        31
20                    Medical Expense Summary
21     30             Series 40 Window       32, 33,
                      Brochure -             34, 120
22                    (Back Page)
23     30A            Series 40 Window       33, 34,
                      Brochure - Original    120
24                    Document


 1               E X H I B I T S (Continued)
 2  EXHIBIT NO.       DESCRIPTION            PAGE
 3     31             Ted Lansing Delivery    32
       32             Series 40 & 60 Window   32
 5                    Warranty



 2  On behalf of the Plaintiff:

 3                       JANA B. TABOR, Esquire
                         450 Arborshade Trace
 4                       Duluth, Georgia 30097
                         (770) 814-8134  
    On behalf of the Defendant:
                         RON MCKINNEY (pro se)
 7                       4083 Red Laurel Way
                         Snellville, Georgia 30039
 8                       (770) 972-2576                    
 9  Also Present:
10                       Robyn McKinney








 1           MR. MCKINNEY:  This is the deposition of

 2      plaintiff, Insulated Wall Systems, a Georgia

 3      corporation.  It is taken pursuant to

 4      notice.  It is being taken for the purpose of

 5      discovery and all others purposes provided by

 6      the Civil Practice Act.  

 7           Today's date is February 6, 2007, and it

 8      is approximately 11 minutes past 10.

 9          Let the record reflect that present at
10      the deposition is the Defendant, Ron
11      McKinney, who is acting pro se.
12          Also present is Mr. Tabor, plaintiff's        

13      apparent designated representative for    

14      discovery, and Jana B. Tabor, counsel for    

15      plaintiff; and Meredith Cohen, the Certified    

16      Court Reporter.  

17           Also in the room is Robyn McKinney, wife

18      of the defendant.

19           Let the record also reflect that at this

20      time I am reserving all objections except as

21      to the form of the question and

22      responsiveness of the answer until first use

23      of the deposition.

24           MS. TABOR:  That's fine.

25  ///


 1                    JOHN TABOR,

 2  was called as a witness, having been first duly
 3  sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
 4                    EXAMINATION

 6      Q    Have you ever a given a deposition

 7  before?

 8      A    Yes, I have.

 9      Q    Could you tell me when and what case?

10      A    The year I am guessing was either 1999

11  or 2000.  The location was at the lawyer's office

12  for the defendant.  I can't tell you the address

13  or the attorney's name or what part of town.  I

14  have no recollection as to that.

15      Q    The case?

16      A    The case was, defendant's name was

17  Grover, Larry Grover, to the best of my

18  recollection.

19      Q    So you know how these things work?

20      A    I have been to one, if that answers your

21  question, I believe.

22      Q    I will lay the ground rules as best as I

23  understand them, because this is my first time

24  giving a deposition, or taking a deposition.  

25           I will try not to talk over you.  I will


 1  try not to get into an argument with you.  If you

 2  don't understand the question, just state so and

 3  I will try to rephrase it in a way that is more

 4  understandable.

 5           The other ground rule is, answer yes or

 6  no instead of uh-huh or un-huh; and like I said,

 7  again, let's not argue.

 8           Would you state your full name for the

 9  record, please.  

10      A    John Joseph Tabor.

11      Q    Where do you reside?

12      A    450 Arbor Shade Trace, Duluth, 30097.

13      Q    Who lives there with you?

14      A    My wife and my son.

15      Q    And is Ms. Tabor your wife?

16      A    Yes, she is.

17      Q    And she is also your attorney, is that

18  correct, or attorney for plaintiff?

19      A    That's correct.

20      Q    Do you own any property in Gwinnett

21  County?

22           MS. TABOR:  Let me stop you right

23      there.  The purpose of this deposition is to

24      depose the plaintiff.  In your notice of

25      deposition, you have indicated several areas


 1      to which you would like to depose the

 2      plaintiff.  

 3           You are not to depose Mr. Tabor as an

 4      individual.  If you would like to ask him

 5      questions with regard to the areas you have

 6      indicated, that is fine.  To the extent you

 7      are going to ask him personal related

 8      questions, I will instruct him not to answer.

 9           MR. MCKINNEY:  My understanding is, you

10      can only object to questions that go to

11      privilege, and I am free to ask him whatever

12      I want.  However, I don't want to get into

13      his personal life either.

14           MS. TABOR:  Okay.  Well, then, let's

15      move on.

16           MR. MCKINNEY:  That question has

17      something to do with this case.


19      Q    Please state your academic education,

20  beginning with high school.  

21      A    I went to high school, Druid Hills High

22  School here in Atlanta.  I graduated in 1981.  

23  From that point I went to Georgia State

24  University in downtown Atlanta.

25           After I received my undergraduate degree


 1  there, I took some time off, a year or so, and

 2  then I went to Georgia State law school.  I have

 3  a jurist doctorate degree from Georgia State

 4  School of Law.

 5      Q    What was your undergraduate degree?

 6      A    Business administration and criminal

 7  justice.

 8      Q    And you do have a JD, jurist doctorate?

 9      A    That is correct.

10      Q    Are you a member of the Bar?

11      A    No.

12      Q    In any state?

13      A    No.

14      Q    Have you ever been a member of the Bar?

15      A    No.

16      Q    State your position with the

17  corporation.

18      A    I am the president of the corporation.

19      Q    When were the incorporation papers filed

20  for plaintiff?

21      A    When?

22      Q    Yes.

23      A    To the best of my recollection, I

24  believe the incorporation was done in 1989, maybe

25  1990, sometime around there.


 1      Q    State the name and title of the officers

 2  of the corporation.

 3      A    I am the president, and the only other

 4  officer of the corporation is Robert Tabor, who

 5  is the secretary and the vice president.  I am

 6  treasurer and president.

 7      Q    You said you were treasurer, is that

 8  what you said?

 9      A    Yes.

10      Q    Robert Tabor, is he related to you?

11      A    Yes.

12      Q    Those are the only officers?

13      A    That's correct.

14      Q    How many employees does Insulated Wall

15  Systems have?

16      A    None.

17      Q    Would you consider yourself an employee?

18      A    Yes.

19      Q    So it has one?

20      A    Well, yeah, it has one.

21      Q    But you wouldn't consider Robert Tabor

22  an employee?

23      A    No.

24      Q    Now when I called you the first time,

25  there was a person by the name of Mack Hilton


 1  there, he wasn't an employee at the time?

 2      A    No.

 3      Q    Is this the same Mack that came out and

 4  worked on defendant's residence?

 5      A    No.

 6      Q    All right.  Have you been fully prepared

 7  by your attorney and corporation to give binding

 8  answers --

 9           MS. TABOR:  Object to the question to

10      the extent it requires the deponent to answer

11      with regard to any statements he may have

12      made to counsel.

13           Subject to that objection, if you can

14      answer that question without revealing any

15      information, you can do that.

16           THE WITNESS:  Repeat the question.


18      Q    Have you been fully prepared --

19           MS. TABOR:  I will object to the fact

20      that is a vague question.


22      Q    -- to give binding answers --

23      A    I don't understand what you are talking

24  about.

25      Q    Let's move on.  


 1           At this time I will introduce the

 2  exhibits.  They have been pre-marked by

 3  Ms. Cohen.  All of these I supplied except for

 4  one.  I think we will determine that as we go

 5  through.  

 6           Your objections will be noted for each

 7  one, and we will continue on as if they were

 8  admissible.

 9           I will reserve my right -- I will let

10  the judge be the decider of what is admissible

11  and -- here's a list and they have been marked.  

12                    (Exhibits 1 through 32 were marked        

13                    for identification.)

14           MS. TABOR:  Mr. McKinney, to the extent

15  that you present exhibits at the deposition has

16  nothing to do with whether or not they are

17  admissible in a court of law, it is whether or

18  not this deponent recognizes them, and this is

19  not an admissibility issue.


21      Q    We will go through each one.

22           MS. TABOR:  He can testify as to his

23      knowledge.


25      Q    Let's go through them first and see if


 1  we can identify them.  

 2           MS. TABOR:  Do you want to start with

 3      No. 1?  


 5      Q    Number 1 is the notice to take

 6  deposition of plaintiff.  Do you agree that that

 7  is what Exhibit No. 1 is?

 8      A    That is what it states.

 9      Q    Exhibit No. 2 --

10           MS. TABOR:  Hold on.  Do you have any

11      questions with regard to Exhibit No. 1?


13      Q   I will introduce the exhibits and we will

14  just identify them.  

15          As I go through this deposition, we will

16  call them up and ask questions.

17          MS. TABOR:  All right.

18          MR. MCKINNEY:  We can get off on tangents

19  four ways to Sunday if I do it any other way.


21      Q    Exhibit No. 2, Defendant's Exhibit No. 2

22  is identified as a postcard that was sent by

23  Insulated Wall Systems; is that correct?  Does

24  that look like the postcard?  

25           MS. TABOR:  Let's go off the record.


 1                   (Off the record.)


 3      Q    Would you please identify Exhibit No. 2,

 4  if you can.  

 5      A    It appears to be a postcard that was

 6  used to solicit business that was sent by Mack

 7  Hilton.

 8      Q    Is that your handwriting?

 9           MS. TABOR:  With regard to what?

10           MR. MCKINNEY:  On that postcard.  

11           THE WITNESS:  There is lots of

12      handwriting on here.

13           MS. TABOR:  On page 2?

14           MR. MCKINNEY:  On both pages.  Well,

15      principally, second page.

16           THE WITNESS:  That appears to be my

17      handwriting.

18           MS. TABOR:  Yes.

19           THE WITNESS:  Yes.


21      Q    Let's move on to Exhibit 3.  Would you

22  please identify that if you can.  

23      A    That is one of my business cards with

24  some writing on it.

25      Q    Exhibit 4 consists of three pages.  


 1      A    That appears to be the work contract for

 2  the work that was done on your home.

 3      Q    On the defendant's house?

 4      A    Correct.

 5      Q    Exhibit No. 5.  

 6      A    It says, Gwinnett County Construction

 7  Code.

 8      Q    Exhibit No. 6?

 9      A    It says, International Residential Code,

10  on page 1, for One and Two Family Dwellings,

11  dated 2006, from the International Code Council;

12  and the next page says it is the Georgia State

13  Amendments to the International Residential Code

14  For One and Two Family Dwellings, 2006 Edition.

15      Q    As a matter of record, the full versions

16  are sitting right there.

17           Exhibit No. 7?

18           MS. TABOR:  Okay, Mr. McKinney, to the

19      extent that in Exhibit 6 you presented two

20      pages to the deponent and asked the deponent

21      to identify those pages, that is all he has

22      identified.

23           MR. MCKINNEY:  That is correct.  But it

24      is what they represent.

25           MS. TABOR:  To the extent we are not


 1      talking about representations here, sir, you

 2      have asked a deponent to identify a

 3      document.  

 4           If there is something else you want him

 5      to identify, you need to present it to the

 6      deponent, not put it in the corner of the

 7      room and say let the record reflect.  If you

 8      want to talk about it, you need to present

 9      it.

10           MR. MCKINNEY:  We have marked 5A.  

11      Please mark this as Exhibit 6A.

12               (Exhibits 5A and 6A were marked for

13               identification.)


15      Q    Exhibit No. 7, would you please identify

16  that document.  Just read what it says.

17      A    Gwinnett County Department of Planning

18  and Development.  Deck additions to a home,

19  building permit requirements.

20      Q    Page 2 does there appear to be --

21      A    It appears to be an architectural

22  drawing of a portion of a deck.

23      Q    Page 3, what does that appear to be?

24      A    More writing and another diagram of a

25  staircase.


 1      Q    Exhibit No. 8?

 2      A    Exhibit No. 8 is apparently another

 3  document from the Gwinnett County Department of

 4  Planning and Development and the heading on this

 5  page is, Building Addition to a Home Building

 6  Permit Requirements, revised April, 2004.

 7      Q    Page 2, what does it appear to be?

 8      A    Page 2 is another page apparently from

 9  the Gwinnett County Department of Planning and

10  Development, the development division, and it

11  seems to be titled, Minimum Plain Concrete

12  Footings and Foundation Requirements for One and

13  Two Family Dwellings.

14      Q    Okay.  Exhibit No. 9?

15      A    Page 1 is entitled, Vinyl Siding

16  Installation Manual.

17      Q    Exhibit No. 10?

18      A    Exhibit No. 10 appears to be from

19  GreenGuard, it's Pactiv Building Products,

20  Product Guide Specification.  

21      Q    That is good enough -- well let's go

22  back to that one.  Do you see there under air

23  barriers, where it says specifier notes?

24      A    I see where it says specifier notes,

25  yes.


 1      Q    Would you read that sentence, the

 2  following sentence.  

 3      A    Specifier notes, this section covers

 4  Pactiv building products, GreenGuard Value Wrap,

 5  Housewrap.

 6      Q    All right sir.  That is good enough.  

 7  Exhibit No. 11, read the top line would be good

 8  enough.

 9      A    The top line for Exhibit No. 11 says,

10  Installation Instructions for GreenGuard Fanfold

11  Siding Underlayments Used as a        

12  Water/Weather-resistive Barrier.

13      Q    That is good.  Exhibit No. 12.  Can you

14  identify that document.  

15      A    That appears to be an order form that

16  was used to order the windows for your house.

17      Q    Your order form or Insulated Wall's

18  order form?

19      A    Correct.

20      Q    Exhibit No. 13?

21      A    Exhibit No. 13 appears to be a copy of a

22  letter from Defendant Ron McKinney to John Tabor,

23  Insulated Wall Systems, referencing first notice

24  contract dated 23rd August 2004 between Insulated

25  Wall Systems Inc. and Rob McKinney.


 1      Q    Okay.  Move on to page 4 of that

 2  exhibit.  There are three pages on the first one,

 3  the fourth page is --

 4      A    There is no page 4.  Are you referring

 5  to just the page marked number 1, after page 3?

 6      Q    The fourth physical page in the

 7  document.

 8      A    What about it?

 9      Q    Would you read what that is.  Would you

10  identify that, please, sir.

11      A    It appears to be a copy of a letter from

12  Ron McKinney, the defendant, to John Tabor,

13  Insulated Wall Systems Inc., referencing second

14  notice and demand, contract dated 23rd August

15  2004 between Insulated Wall Systems Inc. and Ron

16  McKinney.

17      Q    And the next page, can you identify

18  that?

19      A    The next page appears to be another copy

20  of a letter from Defendant Ron McKinney to John

21  Tabor, Insulated Wall Systems Inc., referencing

22  third notice, contract dated 23rd August 2004

23  between Insulated Wall Systems Inc. and Ron

24  McKinney, response to letter dated January 4,

25  2005 from John Tabor to Mr. and Mrs. McKinney.


 1      Q    That identifies it.

 2           Exhibit No. 14, could you please

 3  identify that.

 4      A    It appears to be a copy of a letter from

 5  Insulated Wall Systems Inc., dated January 4,

 6  2005 addressed to Mr. and Mrs. McKinney.  

 7      Q    Did you write that letter?

 8      A    Yes, I did.

 9      Q    Exhibit No. 15.

10      A    What about it?

11      Q    Please identify it.

12      A    It appears to be a copy of the lien

13  filed and recorded, Clerk Superior Court of

14  Gwinnett County, January 4, 2005 at 10:10 a.m.

15      Q    Did you file this lien?

16      A    Yes, I did.

17      Q    Exhibit 16, please identify it.

18      A    It appears to be a copy of the Complaint

19  filed in the Superior Court of Gwinnett County,

20  Insulated Wall Systems Incorporated vs. Ron

21  McKinney, Defendant.

22      Q    Exhibit 17, can you identify that.

23      A    It appears to be a contract from

24  Insulated Wall Systems, Inc. for work performed

25  on a home owned by George Grover and Vera Grover


 1  at 960 White Birch Way in Lawrenceville, dated

 2  8th day of March 1999.

 3      Q    Did you enter into that contract as the

 4  agent for Insulated Wall Systems?

 5      A    Yes, I did.

 6      Q    Exhibit 18, would you please identify

 7  that.

 8      A    It appears to be a copy of the contract

 9  between Insulated Wall Systems Inc. and Andy

10  Binegar at 3403 Wood Laurel Drive in Snellville,

11  Georgia dated the 22nd day of November 2004 for

12  siding to be installed on their house.

13      Q    Did you enter into that contract for

14  Insulated Wall Systems?

15      A    Yes, I did.  

16      Q    Exhibit 19, would you please identify

17  that document.

18      A    It appears to be a copy of a letter from

19  Macon E. Gooch Building Consultants Inc.,

20  addressed to Ronald McKinney, the defendant,

21  regarding the residence at 4083 Red Laurel Way,

22  Laurel Creek Subdivision, Gwinnett County.

23      Q    Would you agree that that is the

24  engineering report that we have supplied to

25  Insulated Wall Systems?


 1           MS. TABOR:  Restate your question.


 3      Q    Do you agree that this is the

 4  engineering report that we supplied to Insulated

 5  Wall Systems and plaintiff's attorney?

 6      A    I don't know, you would have to show me

 7  the one you supplied my attorney, and I can

 8  compare the two and tell you.

 9      Q    Well you should have it.  

10           Have you reviewed all the documents that

11  defendant has supplied you?

12      A    To the best of my knowledge, I have.

13      Q    And this is one of the documents that

14  defendant has supplied you; is that correct?

15      A    I just told you, I don't specifically

16  remember every document.  There has been so many

17  documents in this case, it is impossible to pick

18  up any one and --

19      Q    Who is the document signed by, or what

20  is the stamp on this document, page 3?

21      A    It doesn't appear to be signed by

22  anyone.

23      Q    Okay what does the stamp say or the

24  typewritten, these are bad copies or maybe not

25  copies but -- what does it say on the bottom of


 1  the right hand --

 2      A    It says Macon E. Gooch III, Ga. P.E. No.

 3  8889, ICC PEF002999, Residential Combination

 4  Inspector.

 5      Q    That is good enough.  Exhibit 20.  

 6  Please identify the best that you can.  

 7      A    It is titled, Inspection Report

 8  Details.  The heading says, General.  There is

 9  another heading that says, Exterior.  

10      Q    Look at the top where it says record

11  number, McKinney.  Does this appear as if it is

12  an inspection of the defendant's residence?

13      A    What are you asking about the record

14  number?  I don't understand what you are asking.  

15      Q    Would you read what it says up there

16  after the record number.

17      A    It says record 0725062-McKinney, Ron,

18  4083 Red Laurel Way, Snellville, Georgia 30039.

19      Q    Does this look like an inspection

20  report?

21           MS. TABOR:  If you know.

22           THE WITNESS:  I guess it does.


24      Q    Let's move on to Exhibit 21.  Please

25  identify that.


 1      A    This document is entitled, Champia Real

 2  Estate Inspection Report, the date of inspection,

 3  July 5, 2006.

 4      Q    Did you supply defendant with this

 5  document?  Did Insulated Wall Systems or

 6  plaintiff's attorney?

 7      A    I believe so.

 8      Q    So you will agree that this is the real

 9  estate inspection performed by someone on behalf

10  of plaintiff?

11      A    I can just tell you what the document

12  says.

13      Q    But you have seen this document before,

14  is that true?

15      A    You are handing me a copy of something,

16  I can't say I have ever seen this copy before.

17      Q    This is what you supplied me with was a

18  copy.

19      A    It looks like it may well be a copy of

20  the original; but since I don't have the  

21  original --

22      Q    Let's move on.  Exhibit 22.  Could you

23  please identify that document.

24      A    This document is titled, The Standards

25  of Practice and Code of Ethics of the American


 1  Society of Home Inspectors.  

 2      Q    Okay.

 3      A    Effective January 1, 2000.

 4      Q    That is good enough.  

 5           Exhibit 23, please identify that

 6  document.  

 7      A    This appears to be a copy of a letter

 8  from Atrium Windows and Doors, dated      

 9  September 15, 2005 to the defendant and

10  Mrs. McKinney.  

11      Q    And it is from who, who signed the

12  letter?

13      A    Apparently Chris Reilly.  That is what

14  it says on the bottom of page 2.

15      Q    Have you ever heard of Atrium?

16      A    Yes, I have.

17      Q    Who are they?

18      A    They are a window manufacturer.

19      Q    Do they manufacture the Windjammer

20  windows?  

21      A    To the best of my knowledge, yes.

22      Q    And these are the windows that were

23  installed by plaintiff in defendant's residence?

24           MS. TABOR:  Object to the form of the

25      question.



 2      Q    Were these the window manufacturer of

 3  the windows that were installed in defendant's

 4  residence?

 5      A    I believe so.

 6      Q    Exhibit 24.

 7      A    This document is entitled Sequoyah

 8  Builders Inc./Sequoyah Vinyl Creations Inc. from

 9  Canton, Georgia, period ending 8/28/06.

10      Q    Does it have the word "statement" on it?

11      A    Repeat the question.

12      Q    Does it have the word "statement" on it?

13      A    Yes, this page has the word "statement"

14  on it.

15      Q    So does this look like a bill?

16      A    I have no idea if it is a bill or what

17  it is.

18      Q    Let's move on.  You haven't seen this

19  document before?

20           MS. TABOR:  Which document?  

21           MR. MCKINNEY:  Exhibit 24, the one he

22      was just looking at.

23           THE WITNESS:  I don't have any

24      recollection of this.



 1      Q    Exhibit 25, have you ever seen that

 2  document before?

 3      A    I don't recall seeing this document

 4  before.

 5      Q    What does it look like to you?  What

 6  does it appear to be?

 7      A    The page is titled Hardscapes - Brian

 8  Beaty, BrianHardscapes@yahoo.com, from Buford,

 9  Georgia.

10      Q    What does the document appear to be?

11      A    It says, Bill/Quote, dated 8/14/05.

12      Q    And what is the quote concerning?

13      A    You want me to read this document to

14  you?  It says customer, Ron McKinney.

15      Q    Read the comment part.  

16      A    Comments, tear out existing concrete

17  slab/repour 14x19 w/footings, rebar, vapor

18  barrier, cost $2,800.

19      Q    So it looks like a quote for tearing out

20  the slab and rebuilding it?

21           MS. TABOR:  Object to the form of the

22      question.


24      Q    Does it look like a quote for --

25           MS. TABOR:  You can answer, if you know.


 1           THE WITNESS:  I don't know.


 3      Q    Exhibit 26, what does that appear to be?

 4      A    This document is titled, Sketch

 5  Estimate, Decks by Jeff with a phone number, and

 6  it appears to have a drawing, a rough drawing --

 7  I am not sure what, it says "house," and there is

 8  some other writing on it.

 9      Q    Does it look like a quote for a deck?

10      A    I don't know what it is.

11      Q    Look on the second page; does that look

12  like a receipt or invoice?

13      A    I don't know what this is.

14      Q    Does it say, remove and replace 10 by 20

15  deck, 2 landings and stairs, materials and labor,

16  $4,883.00?

17      A    I suppose that is what it says.

18      Q    Let's move on to the next one, 27.  It

19  should be a booklet of 32 pages of photographs.  

20  Is that what you see?  

21      A    It appears to be 32 pages of copies of

22  photographs.

23      Q    Okay.  Exhibit 28, can you identify that

24  document?

25      A    This document appears to be a copy of a


 1  paper with information from Ted Lansing

 2  Corporation regarding high performance glass.

 3      Q    Is this concerning the Windjammer

 4  windows?

 5      A    That appears to be the case.

 6      Q    And this is a product you sell or

 7  Insulated Wall Systems sells; is that correct?

 8      A    Yes, we have.

 9           MR. MCKINNEY:  Would you mark that as

10      Exhibit 28A.  

11               (Exhibit 28A was marked for

12               identification.)


14      Q    I am handing you Exhibit 28A.  Take a

15  look at that document.

16      A    The document is entitled Windjammer

17  Series 60, vinyl replacement windows.

18      Q    Is that a window that Insulated Wall

19  Systems sells?

20      A    Yes, I have sold this window --

21  Insulated Wall Systems has sold this window.

22      Q    Is Exhibit 28 the last page or the back

23  page of that?

24      A    It seems to be.

25      Q    Exhibit 29, read the first two lines for


 1  identification purposes.  

 2      A    The first two lines starting from the

 3  top of the page, first line says, injury

 4  damages.  Second line says medical bill damages,

 5  due to back injury.  

 6      Q    Exhibit No. 30, can you identify that

 7  document.

 8      A    This appears to be another copy of a

 9  page with information on high performance glass

10  from Ted Lansing Corporation.

11      Q    Are you looking at Exhibit 30?

12      A    Yes.

13      Q    Let's pull out Exhibit 31, what does

14  that look like?

15      A    It appears to be a shipping invoice from

16  Ted Lansing Corporation.

17      Q    Do you agree that that is the order

18  acknowledgement or the order that was sent to

19  defendant's residence, the materials that

20  Insulated Wall Systems ordered and sent to?

21      A    It appears to be.

22      Q    I will try to straighten the exhibit

23  number out, I am not sure what happened.  Let's

24  move on to Exhibit 32.  What does that appear to

25  be?


 1      A    It is titled Windjammer by Ted Lansing

 2  Corporation, transferable lifetime limited

 3  warranty replacement products.

 4      Q    So it looks like a warranty for

 5  Windjammer windows?

 6      A    That's correct.

 7           MR. MCKINNEY:  Let's take a ten-minute

 8      break.  

 9               (A recess was taken.)


11      Q    If you would pull out Exhibit No. 2 and

12  Exhibit No. 4.

13           MS. TABOR:  Before we go further, let me

14      ask a question on the record to the extent

15      you did not identify number 30 at all.

16           MR. MCKINNEY:  Did I miss one?

17           MS. TABOR:  You seem to have some

18      confusion about.

19           MR. MCKINNEY:  Let's look at 30.  Take a

20      look at Exhibit 30.

21           If you will mark this as Exhibit 30-A.

22               (Exhibit 30A was marked for

23               identification.)


25      Q    Does Exhibit 30 appear to be the last


 1  page of Series 40 which is Exhibit 30A --

 2           MS. TABOR:  I will object to the form of

 3      the question to the extent that there has

 4      been no identification of Exhibit 30A.


 6      Q    Would you identify Exhibit 30A.  

 7      A    Exhibit 30A appears to be a brochure by

 8  Windjammer Windows by Ted Lansing Corporation,

 9  Series 40 Vinyl Replacement Windows.

10      Q    Does Exhibit 30 look like a back page of

11  Exhibit 30A?

12      A    It appears to be.

13           MR. MCKINNEY:  I believe all the

14      exhibits have been identified.  

15           MS. TABOR:  I would like to make note

16      for the record that exhibits 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,  

17      5A, 6, 6A, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 19, 20, 22, 23,

18      26, 27, 28, 28A, 29, 30, 30A, 31, and 32, no

19      testimony has been solicited with regard to

20      the deponent's personal knowledge of any of

21      these exhibits; and to the extent the

22      deponent has made any identification, it has

23      been a mere recitation of wording that

24      appeared on the document.

25           MR. MCKINNEY:  Noted.



 2      Q    If you would pull out Exhibit 2 and

 3  Exhibit 4 --

 4           Let's go off the record.

 5               (Off the record.)


 7      Q    Okay.  Exhibit 2 and 4 you have out.  Do

 8  you have any personal knowledge of Exhibit 2?

 9      A    I have already identified it.  I don't

10  know what you mean by personal knowledge.

11           MS. TABOR:  I will object to the form of

12      the question.


14      Q    Do you have any personal knowledge of

15  Exhibit 2?

16           MS. TABOR:  Same objection.

17           MR. MCKINNEY:  What is the objection?  

18           MS. TABOR:  Form of the question.  

19      Vague.

20           MR. MCKINNEY:  Vague?

21           MS. TABOR:  Yes, sir.  Do you have any

22      personal knowledge of the document.


24      Q    Is this a document that Insulated Wall

25  Systems sent out in August of 2004?


 1      A    No.

 2      Q    July 2004?

 3      A    I don't know about the date.  I can just

 4  tell you that it wasn't sent out by Insulated

 5  Wall Systems.

 6      Q    Do you have any knowledge of who sent it

 7  out?

 8      A    Yes, I believe it was sent out by Mack

 9  Hilton.

10      Q    What is the return address, the name on

11  the front page of the postcard?

12      A    Front page of the postcard says John

13  Tabor, 4169 Clairmont Road, Chamblee, Georgia

14  30341.  

15      Q    Is that you?

16      A    What do you mean, is that me?  

17      Q    Is that your name and return address?

18      A    That is my name and that return address

19  is for the office of Insulated Wall Systems.

20      Q    Did you send out that postcard?

21      A    No, I did not.

22      Q    Did you write those words?

23      A    I believe that is my handwriting.

24      Q    And on the second page, did you write

25  these words?


 1      A    That appears to be my handwriting, yes.

 2      Q    Would you read the second paragraph,

 3  third line.

 4      A    Second paragraph doesn't have a third

 5  line.

 6      Q    Well, the third line down from the top,

 7  second paragraph, where it starts, this year.  

 8      A    It says, This year has been slow, and

 9  I --

10      Q    Second line after that, read the whole

11  sentence.

12      A    This year has been slow, and I need work

13  for my people.

14      Q    And you wrote that?

15      A    That is my handwriting.

16      Q    Was that the case when you wrote it?

17      A    I suppose so.

18      Q    So that year was 2004?

19      A    Yes, it was the year 2004.

20      Q    And you need work for your people at

21  that time?

22      A    That is what it says.

23      Q    Okay.  Let's look at the third

24  paragraph, would you read that for me into the

25  record.


 1      A    I will give you the best discounts

 2  you'll ever see on name brand products and

 3  quality work.  Satisfaction guaranteed; license

 4  and insured, 100 percent financing.  

 5      Q    What do you call this?  I guess it is a

 6  postcard.  Is that what you identify it as, a

 7  postcard?

 8      A    Yes, I would identify it as a postcard.

 9      Q    Would you identify it as some type of

10  advertising literature?

11      A    Yes.

12      Q    That originated from Insulated Wall

13  Systems?

14      A    No, actually this was Mack Hilton's

15  design, it just happens to be in my handwriting,

16  I see it has his --

17      Q    Is Mack Hilton's name on this document

18  at all?

19      A    No, it is not.  

20      Q    What are the two names?  

21      A    His phone number is on the document,

22  that is how I know that it was directed from him.

23           MS. TABOR:  Hold on.  If you ask him a

24      question, let him answer.

25           MR. MCKINNEY:  I'm sorry.


 1           THE WITNESS:  The name is not relevant.  

 2      How I know him is because that is his phone

 3      number, that is not my phone number; so

 4      therefore, he would be fielding any calls

 5      that were generated from this advertisement.


 7      Q    What is the name at the bottom of the --

 8  or right below your name, John Tabor, and the

 9  phone number and 24 hours?

10      A    The very last line on this postcard it

11  says, Insulated Wall Systems, Inc..

12      Q    And right above that is your name?

13      A    That's my name.

14      Q    So one can -- this is advertising from

15  Insulated Wall Systems?

16      A    No, this is advertising designed by Mack

17  Hilton.

18      Q    Is this advertising -- so you are not

19  saying that this is advertising from Insulated

20  Wall Systems --

21           MS. TABOR:  I will object to the form of    

22      the question, because before it was for        

23      Insulated Wall Systems, and now is it from

24      Insulated Wall Systems.  



 1      Q    Is this advertisement from Insulated

 2  Wall Systems?

 3      A    I think I have answered that question,

 4  no, I told you it was from Mack Hilton, that is

 5  why his number is there, to field calls that

 6  generated from this advertisement.

 7      Q    Is this advertisement for Insulated Wall

 8  Systems?

 9      A    I believe he was doing it for Insulated

10  Wall Systems, yes.

11      Q    Was he doing it under your control and

12  supervision?

13      A    No.

14      Q    Does Insulated Wall Systems offer best

15  discounts on name brand products?

16      A    I think Insulated Wall Systems always

17  offers good value for the money.  I have a long

18  history of doing that and was doing that in 2004

19  and it does that today.

20      Q    Does Insulated Wall Systems give you the

21  best discounts you will ever see on name brand

22  products?

23           MS. TABOR:  I object to the question to

24      the extent it is asked and answered.

25           MR. MCKINNEY:  No, ma'am, he answered


 1      another question.

 2           MS. TABOR:  Okay, restate your question.


 4      Q    Does Insulated Wall Systems offer the

 5  best discounts you will ever see on name brand

 6  products?

 7      A    Like I said, I think Insulated Wall

 8  Systems always offers good discounts on name

 9  brand products.  Always has and always will.

10      Q    Does Insulated Wall Systems offer

11  quality work?

12      A    Insulated Wall Systems offers quality

13  work, absolutely.

14      Q    How do you define quality?

15      A    Get a dictionary and look it up.

16      Q    So you are using the customary

17  definition of quality?

18      A    That's correct.

19           MR. MCKINNEY:  Off the record.  

20               (Off the record.)


22      Q    What is your definition of quality?

23      A    I think the word speaks for itself.

24      Q    Again, I will ask the question, what is

25  your definition of quality when it's used as an


 1  adjective?

 2      A    Quality is quality.  I don't think the

 3  word needs any further definition.

 4      Q    I am asking you for your definition of

 5  quality and you refuse to answer the question?

 6      A    Give me a dictionary and I will read you

 7  the definition of quality.

 8      Q    I have the definition of quality if you

 9  want to accept that.  I didn't happen to bring my

10  dictionary here, but I will happily read it to

11  you and see if you agree; how about that

12  approach?

13      A    Are you testifying?

14      Q    No.  

15           MS. TABOR:  You need to ask a proper

16      question.

17           MR. MCKINNEY:  I am.

18           MS. TABOR:  No, you are not.  You are

19      getting closer.  

20           Do you want to ask him the definition of

21      "quality" and see if he agrees with you.

22           MR. MCKINNEY:  That is what I was about

23      to do.


25      Q    Quality, when used as an adjective, in


 1  my opinion means having a high degree of

 2  excellence.  Do you agree with that?

 3      A    Sure.

 4      Q    Here we go again, give me your

 5  definition of "satisfaction guaranteed."

 6      A    Satisfaction guaranteed, simply that,

 7  assuming you are a reasonable person, you would

 8  be satisfied with the quality of the work that

 9  has been performed.  It is based on a standard of

10  reasonableness.

11      Q    Here again, I have a definition of

12  satisfaction and I will tell it to you.  It is,

13  fulfillment or gratification of a desire, need or

14  appetite.

15      A    If that seems to be the textbook

16  definition, fine.

17      Q    Guarantee, what is your definition of

18  guarantee?

19      A    Like I just said, I explained

20  satisfaction guaranteed.  You need to read it

21  altogether.

22      Q    I am asking you your definition of

23  satisfaction guaranteed.  

24      A    Satisfaction guaranteed, something that

25  a reasonable person would be satisfied with the    


 1  results.

 2      Q    Guaranteed uses a noun, according to my

 3  understanding is something that assures a

 4  particular outcome or condition.  Do you agree

 5  with that?

 6      A    Here again, I don't have the dictionary,

 7  but I assume that is your definition from the

 8  dictionary, that is fine with me.

 9      Q    What is your definition of licensed as

10  used in this?

11      A    It means I have a business, that

12  Insulated Wall Systems has a business license.

13      Q    Does that mean you are licensed as a

14  contractor?

15      A    I just said it is a business license.

16      Q    How about the definition of insured?

17           MS. TABOR:  I will object to the

18      question, to the extent that the deposition

19      notice that was sent here today and did not

20      specify insurance as one of the areas to

21      which the deponent would be asked.


23      Q    Corporate history, corporate services --

24  corporate services would include insurance?

25           MS. TABOR:  Mr. McKinney, you can argue


 1      with me if you want.

 2           MR. MCKINNEY:  We can go before the

 3      judge.

 4           MS. TABOR:  What part of your claim has

 5      anything to do with insurance?  You don't

 6      have an insurance claim.  Stick to what

 7      you're complaining about.

 8           MR. MCKINNEY:  We are talking about the

 9      advertising.


11      Q    Are you advertising that Insulated Wall

12  Systems is insured?

13           MS. TABOR:  Same objection.

14           MR. MCKINNEY:  Noted.  

15           Please answer the question.

16           THE WITNESS:  The document speaks for

17      itself.


19      Q    What does "insured" mean in reference to

20  this document?

21           MS. TABOR:  Same objection.

22           MR. MCKINNEY:  Noted.

23           THE WITNESS:  We just covered that.


25      Q    What does "insured" mean in the context


 1  of this document?

 2           MS. TABOR:  Same objection.

 3           MR. MCKINNEY:  Noted.  Answer the

 4      question.

 5           MS. TABOR:  He doesn't have to answer.  

 6           If you would like to go to Judge Davis

 7      and explain to him what you need to know

 8      about the insurance --

 9           MR. MCKINNEY:  I have a claim of fraud

10      and inducement; and one of those inducements

11      is that he's insured and he provides

12      liability insurance; so I would be happy to

13      go to Judge Davis.

14           MS. TABOR:  I am instructing him not to

15      answer the question, and you need to move on.


17      Q    What does 100 percent financing mean?  

18      A    100 percent financing means that

19  Insulated Wall Systems has arrangements with

20  different financial institutions whereby we can

21  direct customers to these financial institutions

22  to determine their creditworthiness in order for

23  the lending institution to make a loan to the

24  customer so that they can pay for the services

25  rendered by Insulated Wall Systems.


 1      Q    Do you require a banking license to do

 2  any of that?

 3      A    No.

 4      Q    Do you have a banking license or does

 5  Insulated Wall Systems have a banking license?

 6           MS. TABOR:  When?

 7           MR. MCKINNEY:  During the time the

 8      contract was signed.

 9           THE WITNESS:  In 2004, I would have to

10      check the records and see.  I am not really

11      sure.  Because for a number of years,

12      Insulated Wall Systems was licensed as a

13      mortgage broker with the Department of

14      Banking and Finance, however --

15           MS. TABOR:  Insulated Wall Systems or

16      you personally?

17           THE WITNESS:  Actually, it was me

18      personally.  I was licensed as a mortgage

19      broker, and I can't tell you whether that was

20      continued through 2004, because beginning in

21      2002 or 2003, as the interest rates dropped

22      substantially in the mortgage arena, the

23      demand for secondary financing sources that I

24      referred people to diminished greatly.  

25           Then around that time, I decided to


 1      discontinue the renewal of my mortgage

 2      broker's license, and I can't tell you

 3      whether that was 2003 or 2004.  There was a

 4      lot of changes in the industry.  

 5           The only time a mortgage broker's  

 6      license was required was for loans that

 7      required a deed to secure debt therefore

 8      creating a lien against the property, subject

 9      to nonjudicial foreclosure.  

10           There was a legislation past in the

11      Georgia Assembly restricting the rights of

12      these various lenders to do business in the

13      State of Georgia.

14           So therefore, around this period of

15      time, a lot of those lenders either closed up

16      shop or else they changed their method of

17      securing the loans from a deed to secure debt

18      to simply a UCC contract --

19           MR. MCKINNEY:  Let me stop you right

20      there.  That is sufficient.

21           MS. TABOR:  You can't do that

22      Mr. McKinney.  That is not how we play this

23      game.  

24           You asked a question, he gets to

25      pontificate.


 1           MR. MCKINNEY:  Tell me the question that

 2      I asked.  

 3               (Question read back.)

 4           MR. MCKINNEY:  It was a yes or no.

 5           MS. TABOR:  The deponent decides how to

 6      answer the question.  

 7           THE WITNESS:  Can you read back where I

 8      left off.  

 9               (Answer read back.)

10           THE WITNESS:  The reason they did such

11      was for several reasons, but number one, it

12      was to avoid the need for a mortgage broker's  

13      license, here again, the State of Georgia

14      passed legislation that restricted the

15      ability of these lenders to do so.  

16           So all this goes to answering your

17      question about the 100 percent financing and

18      whether or not a mortgage broker's -- at this

19      time, I am explaining why I don't remember

20      the exact date.  

21           I quit renewing my mortgage broker's

22      license for all the reasons I just outlined.  

23      As long as you are doing the financing and

24      you are not using a deed to secure debt or

25      putting a lien on these people's property,


 1      then no license to be a mortgage broker is

 2      required.  

 3           So there was a big change in the

 4      industry around that time 2003, 2004, and so

 5      that is the best I can answer your question?  


 7      Q    Let's move on to Exhibit 2 and Exhibit

 8  4.  

 9           Would you agree that Exhibit 2 is just

10  advertising, marketing?

11      A    The postcard, yes, it is.

12      Q    And would you agree that a sensible or

13  reasonable person would look for each one of the

14  promises in Exhibit 4, which is a contract?

15      A    I think a reasonable person would be

16  able to read this and see it for what it is,

17  simply literature to solicit business, plain and

18  simple.

19      Q    Exhibit 2, the second page.  

20           MS. TABOR:  I am clarifying when you

21      look at this, you are speaking of two

22      exhibits.

23           MR. MCKINNEY:  I thought I said Exhibit

24      2.



 1      Q    And if you would look at Exhibit 2 and 4

 2  and look for the items that are in Exhibit 2 and

 3  Exhibit 4.  

 4      A    I don't understand your question.

 5      Q    Well, if this is advertising literature,

 6  then, for it to be honest advertising, wouldn't

 7  one look for those items in the contract?

 8      A    No, I don't necessarily think you would

 9  need to reprint everything that is in the

10  advertising postcard onto a work contract.

11      Q    I didn't ask that.  

12           Would you look for the principles or the

13  concepts in the contract.  

14      A    That doesn't make any sense to me.  But

15  for re-writing it, I don't know what you mean.

16      Q    If you are offering best discounts in

17  your advertisement on brand name products, could

18  you find brand name products in the contract?

19      A    Well let's look at the contract.  

20  Windjammer is a name brand product.

21      Q    So you would agree that that is one that

22  meets -- that the contract meets; is that

23  correct?

24      A    I'm not saying meets anything.

25      Q    Well there are name brand products in


 1  the contract; is that correct?  And your

 2  advertisement advertises name brand products?

 3      A    That's correct.

 4      Q    And you would say -- there is a dollar

 5  amount in this contract, and it could represent

 6  best discounts on those name brand products?

 7      A    Are you asking a hypothetical question.

 8      Q    No, I am asking you, could it?  

 9           MS. TABOR:  That is a hypothetical

10      question.


12      Q    Let's move to the next one, quality

13  work.  Are their statements in the contract that

14  go to the quality or nature of the work?

15      A    Contract simply states in detail what

16  will be done to the property.

17      Q    Do you see the sentence that says,

18  contractor agrees to do all the work in a good

19  and workmanlike manner?

20      A    Yes, I see that.

21      Q    What does that mean to you?

22      A    Exactly what it says.

23      Q    What is the standard of good and

24  workmanlike?

25      A    That means it is done correctly in


 1  accordance with standards in the industry.

 2      Q    And what are those standards in the

 3  industry?

 4      A    That it is done in a good and    

 5  workmanlike manner.

 6      Q    Does good and workmanlike mean it is

 7  done with a code?

 8      A    No there is no code.  It simply means it

 9  will be done in a fashion that is in accordance

10  with standards in the industry when it's

11  installed on the house.  

12      Q    Is there a construction code for any

13  part of the work that was done on Defendant's

14  residence?

15      A    There are construction codes from coast

16  to coast.

17           MR. MCKINNEY:  I didn't ask him that.

18           MS. TABOR:  I object to the extent,

19      Mr. McKinney --

20           MR. MCKINNEY:  I asked a question and

21      then he changes it when he doesn't like the

22      answer.  

23           Let me strike it and rephrase it.


25      Q    Are there construction codes within


 1  Gwinnett County that govern the construction of

 2  any aspect of the work that plaintiff did on

 3  defendant's residence?

 4      A    Here again, there are lots of different

 5  construction codes, not only with Gwinnett

 6  County, but city and towns.

 7           MR. MCKINNEY:  Move to strike.  

 8      Nonresponsive.


10      Q    The question was within Gwinnett

11  County -- are there construction codes within

12  Gwinnett County that govern the construction of

13  any aspect of the work that plaintiff did on

14  defendant's house?  

15      A    I was answering your question when you

16  interrupted me.  I told you there are codes in

17  Gwinnett County and within the cities within

18  Gwinnett County.

19           MR. MCKINNEY:  Move to strike as

20      nonresponsive.

21           MS. TABOR:  Off the record.

22               (Off the record.)


24      Q    Are there any construction codes that

25  cover any aspect of the work within Gwinnett


 1  County that cover the actual work that you do

 2  that Insulated Wall Systems does?

 3      A    For the third time, I am familiar with

 4  codes that Gwinnett County has, and there are

 5  many codes is my point.  

 6           There are codes not just within Gwinnett

 7  County, but within the cities and municipalities,

 8  townships and whatnot, and I am sure that there

 9  are codes that cover some of the work that was

10  done on your house.  That is probably true.

11      Q    Did you make any commitment to build in

12  accordance with that code?

13      A    There was no specific code that was

14  referenced on any of these documents, no.

15      Q    Let's move to, if you will add to your

16  pile, Exhibit number 5 and 5A.

17           Is there any part of the construction

18  that is covered by those codes, that code?

19      A    I don't know.  I haven't read this

20  entire document.  And it is a document that

21  apparently has a hundred pages.

22      Q    Did you make any commitment to meet that

23  code on any of the construction work --

24      A    No, I didn't reference this code on any

25  material.


 1      Q    Did you tell defendant or defendant's

 2  spouse or anyone else you were talking to that

 3  the work would meet Gwinnett County construction

 4  codes?

 5      A    Did I verbally tell anyone that?

 6      Q    Yes.

 7      A    No.

 8      Q    Did you make any reference whatsoever to

 9  any codes or any standard of work?

10      A    Nothing more than what is put on the

11  contract, that is why the contract says, no

12  verbal agreements recognized.  Everything spelled

13  out on the document was to be done to the house.

14      Q    Does good and workmanlike mean to any

15  code or not?

16      A    It doesn't specifically reference any

17  code, no.

18      Q    Okay.  What does the sentence where it

19  says on Exhibit 4, Contractor will do all said

20  work in strict accordance with the ordinances,

21  rules and requirements of the city, town, village

22  wherein the above mentioned property is located.  

23           What does that sentence mean?

24      A    They simply require that as boiler plate

25  language, and that is the reason that is on this


 1  contract.

 2      Q    What does it mean?

 3      A    Well you just read it.

 4      Q    What does it mean to you?

 5      A    That we are not going to do anything

 6  that is outside the scope of what is normal and

 7  standard practices in this industry for any work

 8  that is being done to the home.

 9           Here again, it goes back to the issue of

10  all the different rules and regulations from

11  county, city, towns, villages and whatnot, there

12  are different building codes and requirements for

13  new construction versus remodeling; and to the

14  best of my knowledge, any rules or requirements

15  by the city, town or village that would affect

16  any of the work done at your house is not

17  enforced.  

18           It would be kind of like the 55 mile an

19  hour speed limit on 285; it may be on the books

20  somewhere, but for all practical purposes, it's

21  voluntary.  There are no rules and requirements

22  for the work that was done, other than what the

23  manufacturer requires to be done in accordance

24  with their standards, which I think are the most

25  important.


 1      Q    You have got me confused.  What do you

 2  mean by the 55 mile an hour?  It says, Contractor

 3  will do all said work in strict accordance

 4  with --

 5      A    I was explaining what it meant to me and

 6  I explained it to you.

 7      Q    So are you saying that it means that

 8  there may be rules, but Insulated Wall Systems

 9  doesn't have to follow them.  Is that what I am

10  understanding?

11      A    That is not what I said.

12      Q    Repeat what you said.

13      A    I said that there are so many rules and

14  regulations in various jurisdictions, that nobody

15  can possibly keep the ball in line; and the fact

16  is, if there are any rules and requirements,

17  specifically covered work down to your house,

18  they are never enforced; because here again, it

19  has more to do with what is required by the

20  manufacturer regarding the installation of their

21  products; and most people working for the cities

22  or towns or villages don't seem to have a good

23  grasp of that.

24      Q    All right.  Let's move on.  

25           The next sentence down says, We carry


 1  adequate insurance to protect our customers

 2  against injuries to our workman or the public.

 3           This is where the insurance comes in.  

 4  Could you explain what insurance that is?

 5      A    We have already discussed that.  

 6      Q    Not in light of the contract.  So please

 7  answer the question.

 8      A    Is it the same objection?

 9           MS. TABOR:  Just answer the question.  

10      It is irrelevant, but just answer the

11      question.

12           THE WITNESS:  We carry adequate

13      insurance to protect our customers against

14      injuries to our workman or the public during

15      the performances of our contract.  

16           Here again, this is more boiler plate

17      language that is required by the financial

18      institutions who are making these contracts

19      part of their record.  That is the reason

20      that that is there.


22      Q    Does plaintiff have any general

23  liability insurance that that sentence covers or

24  any insurance at all?

25           MS. TABOR:  Again, to the extent that


 1      you are asking that question in the abstract,

 2      I object.  This witness is not here to answer

 3      questions about insurance.

 4           MR. MCKINNEY:  He is here to answer

 5      questions.

 6           MS. TABOR:  If you have a question as to

 7      insurance --

 8           MR. MCKINNEY:  Does Insulated Wall

 9      Systems carry adequate insurance to protect

10      customers?  

11           MS. TABOR:  That is not related to this

12      contract, sir.  I object to that question.

13           MR. MCKINNEY:  How can it not be?  It

14      says, and I quote, We carry adequate

15      insurance to protect our customers against

16      injuries to our workman or the public during

17      the performances of our contract.

18           MS. TABOR:  In relation to this

19      contract, what was your question?  


21      Q    Do you carry adequate insurance?

22           MS. TABOR:  I have an objection to the

23      extent whether or not insurance is in place

24      today is irrelevant.

25           MR. MCKINNEY:  At the time of the


 1      contract.

 2           THE WITNESS:  My subcontractors are

 3      required to carry their own Workers' Comp

 4      insurance, and Insulated Wall Systems carries

 5      a general liability policy, and that is

 6      exactly what was in place in 2004.  

 7           I would have to check my records.


 9      Q    Would you please provide that

10  insurance -- have you provided that to defendant?

11           MR. MCKINNEY:  I am making a discovery

12      request that I want the insurance mentioned

13      in this --

14           MS. TABOR:  You have made that request,

15      and to the extent we have responded, we are

16      not going to respond again.  It is

17      irrelevant.


19      Q    Isn't it a fact that you didn't have any

20  insurance at the time this contract was signed,

21  Insulated Wall Systems?

22           MS. TABOR:  I think he testified he

23      didn't know what he had.


25      Q    He didn't know what insurance he had.  


 1      A    I already explained it to you.

 2           MS. TABOR:  He already testified.


 4      Q    Let's move on.  

 5           Tell me what the sentence right after,

 6  Contractor agrees to do all work in a good and

 7  workmanlike manner.  The acknowledgement and

 8  completion of the work -- would you read that

 9  sentence into the record.

10      A    What sentence do you want read?

11      Q    Start with the word, The acknowledgement

12  of the completion of the work.  

13      A    The acknowledgement of the completion of

14  the work, signed by the owners of said premises,

15  shall be sufficient notice that this contract has

16  been satisfactorily completed by the contractor

17  on the date thereof in accordance with terms of

18  this contract.

19      Q    Tell me your understanding or Insulated

20  Wall Systems' understanding of that particular

21  sentence.  

22      A    Here again, that is a sentence that is

23  required by the financial institution that

24  provides the financing.  They require a

25  completion certificate to be signed by the


 1  customer before they would release the funds to

 2  Insulated Wall Systems.  

 3           So that is the only relevance of that

 4  sentence.

 5      Q    So it is a completion certificate, that

 6  is what you said?

 7      A    As a general rule, they would have a

 8  document that would be titled a completion

 9  certificate or something to that effect; but here

10  again, would be part of the documentation for the

11  loan that was prepared by the lending institution

12  and presented to the customer before the funding

13  of the loan.

14      Q    Isn't it a fact that the lending

15  institution would not release the funds until

16  that document is signed?  

17           MS. TABOR:  In what case?  

18           MR. MCKINNEY:  Whatever case it applies

19      to.  That is what he just got through saying.

20           MS. TABOR:  Are you asking as a general

21      rule?  

22           MR. MCKINNEY:  As a general rule.  I was

23      just reiterating the facts.

24           Go back to where he is testifying as to

25      the meaning of that sentence.  


 1           Did he say something about the funds not

 2      being released?  

 3               (Answer read back.)


 5      Q    Signed by a --

 6      A    What is your question?  

 7      Q    My question is, I want to reiterate, it

 8  is a completion certificate, that is a fact?

 9           MS. TABOR:  I will object to that.  

10      There is no question there.  What is your

11      question?


13      Q    My question is, are the funds released

14  until -- the funds are not released until a

15  document is signed?

16           MS. TABOR:  What situation?  

17           MR. MCKINNEY:  In the situation he was

18      just referring to.  He is the one that said

19      it.

20           THE WITNESS:  Well, this doesn't have

21      any bearing on the contract at hand, because

22      we weren't arranging financing for you the

23      defendant.  

24           If you are asking in the great scheme of

25      things as a general rule of thumb, my


 1      recollection is, most lenders require a

 2      signed completion certificate as part of

 3      their lending portfolio, in addition to all

 4      the other loan documents that are prepared by

 5      the bank -- the right to rescission, the

 6      interest rate, and the other required

 7      documentation had to be submitted as a

 8      package before the funds are released to the

 9      lender.


11      Q    So my understanding to your response,

12  and I will ask you to agree after this --

13           MS. TABOR:  He can't agree to your

14      understanding.  Objection.  He can't testify

15      as to your --

16          MR. MCKINNEY:  I am not.

17           MS. TABOR:  You just said -- ask the

18      question.

19           MR. MCKINNEY:  I will ask him if he

20      agrees with it or not at the end is my point.


22      Q    Did you say this sentence didn't apply?

23      A    It has no application to this particular

24  contract.

25      Q    Do you ever cross this sentence out on


 1  any of the contracts?

 2      A    Usually I do.

 3      Q    On finance sales?

 4      A    What do you mean?

 5      Q    Well you have testified in the past, I

 6  think in the interrogatories, that this sentence

 7  only applies to finance sales; is that correct?

 8      A    That's correct.

 9      Q    So that whole paragraph which you

10  scribbled out at the top has to do with finance

11  sales, you didn't scribble out that particular

12  sentence.

13      A    That is true, I didn't scribble out that

14  particular sentence, just the area above it.

15      Q    And you don't scribble it out because

16  why?

17      A    Not to make a mess of the contract, I

18  suppose.

19      Q    So this particular sentence has nothing

20  to do with satisfaction guaranteed, is that what

21  you are testifying to?

22      A    I don't know how to explain it any

23  better than I already have.  It is part of the

24  documents that is provided by the financial

25  institutions.  


 1      Q    Did he ever state to defendant or anyone

 2  associated with defendant in this case that no

 3  payment was due until work was done to the

 4  satisfaction of the customer?

 5      A    That is the general rule of Insulated

 6  Wall Systems is not to require payment before the

 7  completion of the work.

 8      Q    Let's go back to that.  Let's see, that

 9  part of the contract says, All of the above work

10  for the total sum is payable in cash upon

11  completion of the work --

12      A    Where are you?  

13      Q    Right in the middle of the page, Exhibit

14  4.

15           MS. TABOR:  Page 1?


17      Q    Page 3.  It is the same on each page?

18      A    No, it is different on each page.

19      Q    The pre-printed form?

20      A    Yes.

21      Q    Read where it starts off, all the above

22  work.

23      A    All of the above work to be done for the

24  total sum of 16,000 even.

25      Q    The next sentence?


 1      A    Payable in cash, net upon completion of

 2  the work.

 3      Q    Who defines completion of the work

 4  according to this contract?

 5      A    Reasonable people.

 6      Q    And who may that be in this particular

 7  case?

 8      A    Me.

 9      Q    So the contract states that it is a

10  unilateral decision on your part?

11      A    The contract doesn't specify.  It just

12  says the amount is due upon completion of the

13  work.  We completed the work; so at that time,

14  the money is due.  It is very simple.

15      Q    But according to your testimony, you are

16  the decider?

17      A    I said reasonable people.

18      Q    Did you tell defendant or anyone

19  associated with defendant that there would be a

20  walk through, a punch list created?

21      A    Did I tell anyone that?

22      Q    Yes.

23      A    No.

24      Q    So you didn't tell defendant that there

25  would be a walk through when you decided that


 1  work was completed, that we would look at

 2  everything?

 3      A    No.

 4      Q    And there would be a punch list created?

 5      A    No.  Typically my crews finish a job,

 6  they have done it, done it correctly; and

 7  reasonable people understand that and they pay

 8  what they owe.

 9      Q    I continue to hear this word

10  "reasonable."  What does that mean to you?

11      A    I think that normal people understand

12  that word.

13      Q    I am asking for your definition of

14  reasonable.  

15      A    A reasonable person would be one who

16  understands that the work is done in a correct

17  fashion and pays what they owe.  That is what a

18  reasonable person does.

19      Q    In light of this work contracted for by

20  defendant; correct?

21      A    It means it is installed the way it was

22  spelled out in the contract.  The contract tells

23  you what is going to be done.  Once that is done,

24  it is done the way it is contracted to be done.

25      Q    By what standards?


 1      A    The standards that are outlined in the

 2  contract.

 3      Q    Would that mean any codes, any

 4  construction codes?

 5      A    I just told you, what is on the

 6  contract.

 7      Q    Would that be according to any

 8  manufacturer's specifications?

 9      A    It is important to do that, certainly.

10      Q    Okay, for load bearing items, such as

11  the slab and the deck, what manufacturer's

12  specifications would you use?

13           MS. TABOR:  Object to the form of the

14      question.

15           MR. MCKINNEY:  Okay.  I will rephrase.

16           MS. TABOR:  It is a compound question.

17           MR. MCKINNEY:  I will rephrase the

18      question.


20      Q    Under what standards was the slab

21  constructed?

22      A    The slab was constructed under the

23  standards I wrote on the contract.  It is clearly

24  explained to you how it would be installed and

25  what the cost would be to the slab, and that it


 1  was done as a favor to you since you cried about

 2  how little money you had, and you really wanted a

 3  slab; and I explained to you what would be done

 4  to pour a simple slab that would meet your

 5  budget, and I did it at cost for you.

 6      Q    Is it your testimony that I revealed my

 7  financial situation or defendant revealed his

 8  financial situation to you?

 9      A    Absolutely, yes, repeatedly, you

10  repeatedly told me you hadn't worked in ten years

11  and you didn't have any money and you listened to

12  the Clark Howard Show and you agreed with his

13  suggestion that it was always more important for

14  you to take lower quality for a lower price, the

15  price was the utmost concern to you.

16      Q    Do you have any facts or evidence to

17  support this?

18      A    I remember it very clearly.

19      Q    Do you have any other facts, anything

20  other than your testimony?

21      A    I don't think I need anything else.

22           MR. MCKINNEY:  Let's take a break and go

23      to lunch.  

24               (A lunch recess was taken at    

25               12:04 p.m.)


 1               (Deposition resumed at 12:40 p.m.)


 3      Q    If you would pull out Exhibit 4, and

 4  turn to page 3.  Would you read into the record

 5  where it says the handwritten, pour slab.  

 6      A    Pour slab on back of house approximately

 7  14 feet deep away from house and approximately 19

 8  feet wide.  Smooth finish, customer to remove

 9  shrubs first.

10      Q    Is it reasonable for defendant to expect

11  a smooth finish?

12      A    It would be reasonable to expect that

13  until you went in and changed and put a drain in

14  the center of the slab, so then it became nearly

15  impossible to put a smooth finish on the slab.

16      Q    How is that the case?

17      A    Well, there is nothing in here about

18  putting a drain in it; when you put a drain in

19  the center and attempted to slope the concrete

20  toward the drain, you complicated it and you were

21  doing something that wasn't provided for in the

22  contract.

23      Q    I still do not understand, maybe again

24  explain it, how that prevented a smooth surface.  

25      A    You put a hole in the middle of it.  You


 1  ran a pipe through it you cut a hole through the

 2  supports that were supporting the concrete.  

 3  There was never any agreement to do such a

 4  thing.  You went in and molested what we were

 5  doing, and therefore what you did, it affected

 6  the finish and it affected the strength of the

 7  form that was used to support it.

 8      Q    Isn't a smooth finish done just with a

 9  trowel?

10      A    I can't explain to you better than I

11  just did.

12      Q    Isn't it true that your worker,

13  plaintiff's workers did not bring a trowel?

14      A    All I can tell you is that my workers

15  were prepared to put a smooth finish on it until

16  you tampered with a product by putting a drain in

17  the center of the slab, and then you complicated

18  things and then you demanded that they do

19  additional work to correct your mistakes.

20      Q    Is it your position that plaintiff's

21  workers brought everything they needed to do the

22  job?

23      A    That is my -- yes, they did.  They

24  brought everything they needed to do it.

25      Q    Who provided the wheelbarrow?


 1      A    I don't have any knowledge of a

 2  wheelbarrow.

 3      Q    Who provided the shovels?

 4      A    I don't know any anything about any

 5  shovels.

 6      Q    Did your workers bring a broom?

 7      A    I don't know exactly what they had on

 8  the job site.  I wasn't there when they got

 9  started.

10      Q    So you can't testify that they brought

11  everything to do the job?

12      A    I didn't say that.  I think they had

13  everything they needed to do the job whether, you

14  actually provided them some additional tools

15  probably to do extra work that you hadn't

16  contracted for, then they might have needed your

17  tools, but with you changing the terms of the

18  contract and changing the specs of the work they

19  would have performed.

20      Q    So it is your position then or Insulated

21  Wall Systems' position then that whatever you say

22  I did, prevented you from doing a smooth surface?

23      A    I just testified that yes, you

24  complicated things, you demanded something that

25  wasn't in the contract and you changed the terms


 1  of the contract.

 2      Q    Did you discuss that with me before the

 3  pour -- did you discuss this change in the

 4  contract with the defendant before the pour of

 5  the concrete?

 6      A    No, you are the one that changed the

 7  terms right there on the job site.  You

 8  repeatedly changed the terms of the contract.  

 9  You repeatedly gave my workers instruction to do

10  things they were not required to do.

11      Q    What instructions do you give to your

12  workers when a customer asks for something

13  different?

14      A    If a customer asks for something

15  different, then quite often my workers are

16  trained to try and accommodate the customer the

17  best they see fit.  Now, for most customers, it

18  may be just a very small change to what they are

19  doing; but in your situation, your requests were

20  unreasonable, they were way beyond the scope of

21  what we had contracted to do and therefore it

22  made it very difficult for my employees on site

23  to attempt to make any changes that would satisfy

24  you.

25      Q    Did your workers stop work and consult


 1  with you prior to continuing with the pour of the

 2  slab?

 3      A    I don't specifically recall any one

 4  instance where they stopped work on the slab.  

 5  There is nothing I remember about them stopping

 6  work on the slab.

 7      Q    Is it reasonable for a defendant to

 8  expect the slab to be square, rectangle?

 9      A    It would have been rectangle.  It would

10  be reasonable to expect that, except for the fact

11  that you had gone in and cut a hole through the

12  supports that were holding up the concrete.

13      Q    Now, how many holes did supposedly

14  defendant cut?

15      A    There was at least one large hole that I

16  witnessed.

17      Q    And that prevented the slab from being

18  square; is that your testimony?

19      A    It weakened the supports that they

20  installed to the point that it caused it to bow

21  out.

22      Q    Who did that hole?

23      A    It was done at your direction.  Whether

24  you helped them do it or had them do it, I'm not

25  quite sure.  It wasn't part of our contract.  It


 1  was never agreed to, and it was something that

 2  you arbitrarily added and forced them to do.

 3      Q    Isn't it true your worker cut the hole?

 4      A    I just explained that to you.

 5      Q    I just asked a question.

 6      A    I wasn't there.  I didn't witness it.  

 7  All I know is it was at your direction.

 8      Q    Isn't it true that your workers should

 9  have the knowledge to know how to shore up

10  concrete in a form?

11      A    My workers have the knowledge to do what

12  they set out to do.  Unfortunately, when you

13  intervened and gave them instructions, they

14  simply did the best they could to accommodate

15  you.

16      Q    Is it reasonable for a defendant to

17  expect a straight and level slab?

18      A    Within the guidelines in the industry,

19  yes, but I would say straight and level, here

20  again, that to the extent that you come in and

21  change things and damage the supports for the

22  concrete.

23      Q    Have you actually measured the slab?

24      A    No, I have not actually measured the

25  slab.


 1      Q    You have testified or at least responded

 2  to an interrogatory that defendant made you aware

 3  of the purpose of the slab.

 4           Do you recall what that purpose is?

 5      A    The best of my recollection was that you

 6  wanted to put a simple, little screen porch.  

 7  That was always your dream to have a little,

 8  simple screen porch, shed roof and screen walls

 9  at some point in the future.

10      Q    Is it reasonable for a defendant to

11  expect a slab that will support a structure?

12      A    The slab that was poured was designed to

13  support what we had agreed, what would eventually

14  be supported.

15      Q    Let's go to Exhibit 19 and 20.  Have you

16  read these reports concerning the slab aspect of

17  it?  Let's just focus on the slab right now.

18      A    I may have read it at some point.

19           MS. TABOR:  Which one?

20           MR. MCKINNEY:  Both of them.

21           MS. TABOR:  Okay.  When you say, I may

22      have read some aspect of it, which report are

23      you referring to?


25      Q    Let's refer to Exhibit 19.  Have you


 1  read that report as it relates to the slab?

 2      A    I may have some time ago.

 3      Q    And how about Exhibit 20, have you read

 4  that report as it relates to the slab?

 5      A    Here again, I may have some time ago.

 6      Q    Do you have any facts or evidence or

 7  reports that contradict either one of these

 8  reports or what they are saying in terms of the

 9  slab?

10      A    Well, let me reread it.

11           MR. MCKINNEY:  Let's go off the record

12      while you read it.

13               (Off the record.)

14           THE WITNESS:  What was your question?


16      Q    Do you have any facts or evidence to

17  contradict what is said about the slab in these

18  reports?

19      A    I can just tell you the slab that you

20  got is the slab you contracted for.  I did

21  exactly what I told you we would do regardless of

22  what these reports say.  They are irrelevant to

23  the facts at hand.  You got what I told you you

24  would get, and that is the bottom line.

25      Q    So the answer to the question is no?


 1      A    That was not my answer.

 2      Q    Well, I will ask it again.

 3           Do you have any facts or evidence to

 4  contradict what is said about the slab in these

 5  reports?

 6      A    Not other than what I just said.

 7      Q    Okay.  Is it reasonable for a defendant

 8  to want, desire, expect from this contract, a

 9  slab that would support a structure as he has

10  related it to you?

11      A    Repeat the question.

12      Q    Is it reasonable for defendant to expect

13  the slab that would support the structure?

14      A    What structure?

15      Q    The structure that you just described.

16      A    A simple screen porch?

17      Q    Uh-huh.

18      A    I think so, yes.

19      Q    And you will note on Exhibit 19, where

20  on the second paragraph, last sentence that this

21  slab as constructed cannot be used for its

ded purposes.  Do you read that?

23      A    I don't know what you are asking me.  

24  Are you asking me, is that what that document

25  says?


 1      Q    Is that what that document says?

 2      A    I don't understand your question.  Are

 3  you testifying as to what this document says?  

 4  Are you asking me?  What is your question?

 5      Q    Well, my question is, is it reasonable

 6  for me to expect a slab that would support a

 7  structure?

 8      A    And I asked you what kind of structure.  

 9      Q    The structure that you described.

10      A    I believe you can put a screened-in

11  porch on the slab that was constructed, yes.

12      Q    Do you think there was any danger of it

13  sinking?

14      A    I don't think so.  It's been there for

15  years.  It doesn't seem to be sinking.  It seems

16  fine to me, but the point here is that we poured

17  the slab exactly the way we told you we were

18  going to pour it.

19      Q    What is your qualifications to speak to

20  contract work?

21      A    I don't understand your question.

22      Q    What is your qualifications to speak to

23  the structure integrity of the concrete slab?

24      A    I can just tell you, as I told you the

25  day we entered into this contract, that my


 1  company is not in the business of pouring

 2  concrete slabs, never has been.  And I explained

 3  to you very clearly, I had handymen that had

 4  worked for me on properties that I owned that had

 5  done things like poured slabs, extended driveways

 6  and such.  

 7           And I said as a favor to you, I would be

 8  more than willing to have one of those guys pour

 9  this little slab that you so desperately want,

10  and I will do it for you at cost; and I explained

11  the cost of the concrete alone would be about

12  $1,000, and maybe a few hundred dollars for the

13  labor to frame it up and set it for you.  And I

14  left it at that.  

15           You seemed to indicate that is precisely

16  what you wanted, that was all good for you, so

17  that is what we did.

18      Q    Did you make any notations in the

19  contract that we were changing the standard of

20  work?

21      A    I don't believe we changed the standard

22  of work.

23      Q    So is the standard of work professional,

24  good and workmanlike?

25      A    Here again, you got exactly what I told


 1  you we would give you.  For the amount of money

 2  you were charged for that slab, you got exactly

 3  what you paid for.  You didn't pay for these

 4  additional things -- you can pour a slab that

 5  will support a skyscraper if you wish.  However

 6  that is not what you paid for.  That is not what

 7  our understanding is.  You got exactly what I

 8  told you you would get.

 9      Q    Was the understanding for a structure,

10  though?

11      A    I have said repeatedly I understood that

12  there was to be a screened porch, a very simple

13  screened porch at some point in the future.

14      Q    Let's move on to the deck.  Well, let me

15  see if I'm finished with this.  No, I'm not quite

16  finished.

17           Water pools in the wrong direction in

18  the slab, is that professional and workmanlike?

19      A    I don't understand your question.

20      Q    Is it good and workmanlike to build a

21  slab where the water pools toward the house?

22      A    I don't know.  You would have to show me

23  an example of it.  I don't know what you are

24  talking about.

25      Q    Let's pull out the pictures, Exhibit No.


 1  27.

 2           MS. TABOR:  Can we go off the record.                

 3                    (Off the record.)

 4          MR. MCKINNEY:  I was going to refer him

 5  to Exhibit 27, I think it is, the pictures.

 6           MS. TABOR:  I mean with specificity.

 7           MR. MCKINNEY:  Page 6, bottom left

 8      picture, you see the water circle, damp,

 9      dampness area there.


11      Q    The pictures that I have are the actual

12  pooling against the water or against the wall of

13  the house; but my question is, isn't a slab

14  supposed to pool water away from the house?

15      A    I'm not aware that slabs are supposed to

16  pool water, so I don't know what you're talking

17  about.

18      Q    I mean run water off the slab.

19      A    If the slab is level, then no, I don't

20  think it is supposed to drain water off in any

21  one direction or the other.  

22      Q    In the industry, what is usually done in

23  the case of slabs next to the house?

24      A    I told you, I am not in the concrete

25  industry.  I can only relate my personal


 1  experience, as I did the day before we signed the

 2  contract, what would be done.  And it was done

 3  according to those specifications.

 4      Q    Would you agree that it is installed

 5  above the line --

 6      A    I guess so.

 7      Q    Do you agree that there is no footers?

 8      A    Footers in the sense of a foundation

 9  below the slab?

10      Q    Yes.

11      A    I don't believe there is any -- there is

12  nowhere in the contract where I agreed to put a

13  foundation under the slab, footers or any such

14  thing.

15      Q    Did you do any probing of the ground to

16  determine its capability to hold a slab?

17      A    I simply walked on it like I walked on

18  many yards in the past.  It looked like some good

19  old Georgia red clay, didn't seem to be an area

20  that was disturbed or back filled, same type of

21  situation where I poured slabs before, poured

22  additions for driveways, and that is the

23  experience that I bring to the table when I

24  looked at your backyard and looked at the soil in

25  that area.


 1      Q    So the answer is no?

 2      A    I just explained what I did as far as

 3  probing, I mean, I walked.  I looked at it, I

 4  inspected it.  There was never any agreement that

 5  I would have some special probes to probe your

 6  ground with, no.

 7      Q    Did you obtain a building permit?

 8      A    No, we didn't obtain a building permit.  

 9  I never told you I would, you never did ask for a

10  building permit.

11      Q    Have you had the concrete slab inspected

12  by a qualified concrete inspector?

13      A    No, I didn't have anyone inspect the

14  concrete slab -- I never agreed to have anyone

15  inspect the slab.  I never told you I would have

16  anyone inspect the slab.  I simply poured the

17  slab as I told you I would.  And did it at cost

18  as a favor to you.

19      Q    Is that stated in the contract?

20      A    Is what stated in the contract?  

21      Q    That you were doing it as a favor?

22      A    No, but I told you that in person.

23      Q    Let's move on to the deck, same

24  exhibits, 19 and 20.  And we can keep out Exhibit

25  27, the pictures.


 1           Did you agree to build the deck to any

 2  standards of the industry?

 3      A    I read all the specifications on the

 4  work order.  If you like, I can read them back to

 5  you.

 6      Q    We are talking about the quality of

 7  work.  Did you agree to build the deck to code,

 8  Gwinnett County's construction code?

 9      A    No, I did not.

10      Q    What standards, what level of

11  professionalism did you tell defendant to expect?

12      A    A functional deck that was a heck of a

13  lot better than the one you had up there.

14      Q    But it would not meet any standards of

15  any sort?

16      A    That would be fit for its use.

17      Q    Would it be safe?

18      A    Absolutely.

19      Q    Have you read the two reports, Exhibit

20  19 and 20 as it concerns the deck?

21      A    Yes, I am familiar with Exhibits 19 and

22  20, your hired inspectors and their analysis of

23  the deck.

24      Q    Do you have any facts or evidence to

25  contradict what they are saying?


 1      A    Well, it seems that Exhibit No. 19

 2  references an ICC code, and there's nothing in

 3  our contract about preparing an ICC code, so I

 4  would object to the statements that the landing

 5  is less than required, that the staircase is less

 6  than required.  It is referencing a code that

 7  wasn't part of our contract and I am not familiar

 8  with, and so as far as I am concerned, it isn't

 9  relevant.

10      Q    Okay.  Would you turn to Exhibit 8 -- I

11  am sorry, Exhibit 7.  Are you familiar with that

12  document, have any personal knowledge of that

13  document?

14      A    No, I am not personally knowledgeable of

15  this document.

16      Q    Would you agree with any of the

17  specifications that are on that document?

18      A    Are you asking me to go through each

19  sentence on this document and ask whether I agree

20  with it?

21      Q    Let's address the one that you just

22  addressed.  You've said the landing of the steps

23  is less than the required landing size; is that

24  correct?  Do you agree with that?

25      A    I said that there is nothing in our


 1  contract to specify that the landing or the width

 2  of the staircase, so therefore, there was no

 3  violation of any agreement.

 4      Q    So is it your position that you did not

 5  build a deck or the deck was not built according

 6  to Gwinnett County construction codes?

 7      A    I just told you, I am not familiar with

 8  every detail of this Gwinnett County construction

 9  code.  There is nothing in our contract that says

10  anything about the Gwinnett County codes relating

11  to the building of your deck.

12           I simply laid the specifications out in

13  the contract, and that's what we did.  

14      Q    Is it Insulated Wall Systems' position

15  that it can come into Gwinnett County and build

16  without building to county construction codes if

17  there are requirements?

18      A    There is nothing in our agreement that

19  says I will do that.

20      Q    Please answer the question.

21      A    You are asking a hypothetical question?  

22      Q    If Insulated Wall Systems can come into

23  Gwinnett County and build structures that do not

24  meet the Gwinnett County construction code.

25      A    We can come in and contract with a


 1  private individual to come in and build anything

 2  they want to on the property, so unless I have

 3  agreed in writing to specifically follow a

 4  particular code then no, it wouldn't be relevant.

 5      Q    How large do you think a landing should

 6  be?

 7      A    Where?  On what?  What are you talking

 8  about?  

 9      Q    The landing that you just referred to,

10  the landing of the steps is less than the

11  required landing size.

12           You think there should be some minimum

13  width that it should be?

14      A    As long it serves the purpose of what

15  the deck is built for, and it is functional, and

16  you can walk on it, and you can stand on it, then

17  so be it.  

18           If you want a particular dimension or

19  the width of the staircase all somebody had to do

20  is specify it.  If you wanted a specific width or

21  height or any other specification of the landing,

22  all you simply had to do was specify it in the

23  contract.  

24           You just can't arbitrarily determine

25  after the fact that you want it to some certain


 1  standards you haven't mentioned before.

 2      Q    Look on page 2 of Exhibit No. 7, even

 3  though I didn't realize you didn't adhere to

 4  that.  Right in the middle of the page it says,

 5  Minimal landing to be no less than 36 inches

 6  square.

 7      A    Are you testifying, or do you have a

 8  question?

 9      Q    No, I am pointing it to you.  My

10  question is, why do you think that is there?

11      A    This was probably a best case scenario

12  for someone who wants to build the best deck

13  possible.  That is not what you contracted for.  

14  You wanted to do the least expensive deck

15  possible that would still function for its

16  intended purpose.  

17           There are lots of things you can add to

18  decks.  You can add all kinds of metal hardware,

19  you can build extra supports, you can reinforce

20  it, you can build a $50,000 deck to your

21  dimensions, or you can build one at a very low,

22  reasonable cost and give you value for your

23  money, which is what Insulated Wall Systems did

24  for you.

25           So you can come back and complain that


 1  it wasn't done to the specifications for the best

 2  built deck in Gwinnett County, you just didn't

 3  pay for that.  That's why you didn't get that.

 4      Q    What does money have to do with the size

 5  of a landing 36 inches square?

 6      A    It has to do with every aspect of

 7  construction.

 8      Q    How so?  I fail to understand.

 9      A    You get what you pay for.  What don't

10  you understand?  If you want something done to

11  specific specification, then specify it.  If you

12  specify that you wanted something more, then most

13  likely the greater the cost would be.  

14      Q    Do you think it is important to have the

15  stair treads the same size?

16      A    Depends what you mean by the same size.

17      Q    Same height, same rise -- let's take an

18  example.

19      A    Here again --

20           MS. TABOR:  Are you going to let him

21      answer the question?

22           THE WITNESS:  In your situation, if you

23      demanded that each step be exactly six inches

24      or seven inches or eight inches with a

25      tolerance of one millimeter, then fine, you


 1      are free to specify that in the contract, and

 2      I certainly would have walked away from

 3      contracting with you at that point.

 4           So all I can tell you is the deck was

 5      built, the stairs are functional.  An average

 6      normal person can go up and down the stairs,

 7      they can stand on the deck at any time.  They

 8      can jump up and down on it.  It's not going

 9      anywhere.


11      Q    What facts or evidence do you have to

12  support this?

13      A    I have walked on it myself.

14      Q    How times have you walked on it --

15           MS. TABOR:  Let him answer the question.

16           THE WITNESS:  I walked on the deck.  I

17  had an inspector out there to look at the deck.


19      Q    What does your own inspector say, that

20  is Exhibit No. 21.

21      A    Your question is what?

22      Q    What does your inspector say about the

23  deck?

24      A    Let's turn to page 3 of Exhibit 21.  If

25  you go down to G under the title "Deck Balcony."


 1  First question is, is the deck properly attached

 2  to the house?  And the box yes has been checked.

 3           Columns, adequate has been checked.

 4           The decking itself, adequate has been

 5  checked.

 6           The steps and railing, inadequate,

 7  however at the time my inspector looked at this,

 8  the deck had been molested by the defendants.

 9      Q    Molested?

10      A    I am not finished.  The flashing is

11  adequate, and the framing is adequate.  And that

12  is page 3.

13           Let me see if there is anything else

14  that you asked me about.  

15           The inspection report summary states

16  that the rear wood deck/steps on concrete

17  footings, 4x4 inch pillars and PT framing.  Deck

18  is mostly finished.  However, some stair

19  balusters are to be finished.  Cut to stair

20  angle.  

21           Deck is flashed and attached to house

22  with bolts.  Joists are on metal hangers.  Hand

23  rail loose on deck sides, recommend add

24  additional bolt attachment at hand rail support

25  uprights.  Block joists outside to limit


 1  movement.

 2      Q    So isn't it true your own inspector says

 3  the steps and rails are inadequate?

 4      A    I just read what it says.  The day we

 5  actually did the inspection, I think that you

 6  and/or your wife had been pushing on the rails to

 7  loosen them up as much as possible.  

 8           You had taken caution tape and wrapped

 9  it around the stairway as if there was some

10  hazard that didn't exist other than possibly your

11  own creation.

12           The report does say that even with the

13  damage you had done to the deck --

14      Q    Where does the report say that?

15      A    Well, the report says that the deck was

16  loose on the sides.

17      Q    Where does it say damage performed by

18  defendant?

19      A    I am suggesting that you damaged it.

20      Q    That is your suggestion, but you said

21  the report says that and it doesn't say that.  

22      A    The report says that even though the

23  hand rails are loose, it recommends simply adding

24  an additional bolt at hand rail support

25  uprights.  So a very simple problem to fix with


 1  one bolt is what he recommends.

 2      Q    Did you offer to do that?

 3      A    We made many, many adjustments to your

 4  deck, because you were out on a daily basis, you

 5  were supervising it.  

 6           Every hour my workers were there, you

 7  constantly made changes.  They called me

 8  repeatedly.  They had to go back to Home Depot

 9  repeatedly to get more materials and supplies

10  after you made your changes.  

11      Q    Please list all the changes.

12      A    Well, my recollection from my

13  conversations with my workers on site were that

14  you basically wanted to direct where each and

15  every nail went; you changed the design for the

16  railing on several occasions, you changed the

17  design for the stairs, you changed the design for

18  the landing; and you complained about the

19  supports, and you basically complained about

20  everything they did.

21      Q    What was the first change we requested?

22      A    Read it back.

23                 (Answer read back.)


25      Q    What was the design change?


 1      A    You changed the design of the railing.

 2      Q    How did we do that?

 3      A    I don't remember all the specifics.  It

 4  has been over two years since I had these

 5  conversations with my workers.

 6      Q    Do you know of any specific changes we

 7  requested?

 8      A    I know you changed the location of the

 9  stairs.  You complained about the rails -- I am

10  just repeating what I have already said.  I have

11  already answered your question to the best of my

12  ability.

13      Q    These are just general statements, but

14  none of these are specific changes in the design

15  of the deck.

16           You say we complained a lot.  That is

17  all I am hearing.  I am not hearing any specific

18  design changes.

19      A    Yes.  They had pulled the stairs apart

20  and you had to redo the stairs, you weren't happy

21  with some of the stairs.  They had to take the

22  railing down and redo that because you complained

23  about that.

24      Q    The end result on your inspector's

25  report is he declares the step and railing


 1  inadequate.  So that does not contradict with my

 2  report or Exhibit 19?

 3      A    Are you testifying?  Is there a question

 4  here?

 5      Q    That is a question.  Isn't that true?

 6      A    Repeat the question.

 7      Q    Your expert says that steps and railings

 8  are inadequate.  And that is basically what I see

 9  or read in Exhibit 19.  Would you say that the

10  three experts are in agreement on the steps and

11  railing?

12      A    No.

13      Q    Did your worker do a 2 by 8 single band

14  around the outside edge of the deck?

15      A    Let me look at the contract to refresh

16  my memory.

17           There is nothing in the contract about

18  that.  And I don't have independent recollection.

19      Q    Okay.  According to your philosophy,

20  which I've heard and listened to today, if it

21  isn't in the contract, would you say a band was

22  not even required?

23           MS. TABOR:  Object to the form of the

24      question.



 1      Q    How many bolts were used to connect the

 2  deck to the house?

 3      A    I haven't looked at that deck in two

 4  years.  I can count them, I suppose, is that what

 5  you are asking me to do?

 6      Q    Page 8 might be helpful.

 7      A    I can't say from these photographs how

 8  many bolts are being used.  

 9      Q    Was it bolted all the way across?

10      A    There appear to be bolts all the way

11  across.

12      Q    I see four bolts, and that is it.  And

13  you say you see bolts all the way across?

14      A    I told you I can't see --

15      Q    I should have brought a magnifying

16  glass, is that what you are telling me?

17           Look at page 8, Exhibit 27, the pictures

18  that you have, the picture in the middle.  Do you

19  see a bolt right in the -- in the center picture,

20  do you see a bolt?

21      A    I believe that is a bolt.

22      Q    Do you see any bolts to the right, and

23  the last portion of the right part of the deck is

24  down below.

25      A    That adds to the confusion.  You don't


 1  have one single picture that encompasses the

 2  spanning of the deck.  I do remember that there

 3  was an issue with a rotten structural or partial

 4  rotten structural framing to your house that was

 5  exposed, and for that reason, it became apparent

 6  that they would have to do additional work to

 7  support the deck in that corner.

 8           At this point, we had already determined

 9  that you were a completely unreasonable customer

10  who was refusing to pay for anything.  

11           And in my opinion, we weren't going to

12  do any additional work at that point, because I

13  realized that you were adding work to the

14  contract that wasn't contracted for, and that you

15  were going to refuse to pay for, so I instructed

16  the crew just to secure it the best they could;

17  but we were not to do any additional work to your

18  house to increase the support.  

19           However, after the fact, in the spirit

20  of goodwill, I did offer to add another 4 by 4

21  post to that corner, which would have provided

22  more than enough support, and you rejected that

23  proposal outright.

24           At that point, nothing more was to be

25  done.


 1      Q    And what point was this that you decided

 2  I became unreasonable?

 3      A    Fairly early in the project it became

 4  apparent that you were unreasonable.  Every one

 5  of my workers that worked on your house

 6  complained that you were unreasonable, that you

 7  were changing things, you were telling them how

 8  to do their work, and you had no idea what you

 9  were talking about; so the problem became

10  apparent early, and it got worse each day that

11  the project went on.

12      Q    And at what point did you decide I

13  wasn't going to pay?

14      A    I started having my suspicions early

15  on.  But I finally reached that conclusion when I

16  left your property for the last time, when you

17  stated to me, I have your money; and at that

18  point I realized that all hope for solving this

19  problem, for a reasonable person, had passed and

20  I was not to return to the job site from that

21  point forward.

22      Q    While we are looking at these pictures,

23  let's turn to page 9.  What do you think you are

24  looking at at the bottom of page 9, that

25  photograph?


 1      A    What was your question?

 2      Q    What do you think you were looking at?

 3      A    I can't tell.  I didn't take this

 4  photograph.

 5      Q    So you have no idea what you are looking

 6  at?

 7      A    I didn't take the photograph.

 8      Q    Are you aware that aluminum siding or, I

 9  am sorry, aluminum flashing in the pressure

10  treated wood used on the defendant's residence

11  was incompatible?

12      A    Repeat that again.

13      Q    Are you aware that aluminum flashing in

14  the pressure treated wood that utilized with the

15  deck on defendant's residence are incompatible?

16      A    No, I am not familiar with that, no.

17      Q    Are you aware that aluminum flashing on

18  pressure treated wood deteriorates?  

19      A    All metals deteriorate over long periods

20  of time.  I would expect the same with aluminum.  

21  We are talking decades.  

22      Q    Are you aware that the deck collapsed?

23      A    There is nothing to my knowledge about

24  the deck collapsing.  I walked on your deck.  I

25  don't know anything about that.  


 1      Q    Turn to page 12.  Did defendant tell you

 2  at the bottom left picture, do you see a red

 3  piece of tape?

 4      A    Yes, I see that is red tape.

 5      Q    Do you see that concrete?  How did that

 6  concrete get there?

 7      A    What concrete?

 8      Q    Are you on page 12?

 9      A    Yes.

10      Q    There is a bed of concrete with red tape

11  on it.  You certainly must have seen the concrete

12  when you were out there.

13      A    Well, this picture seems to show dirt

14  between the red tape.  So I don't know if that is

15  concrete covered with dirt --

16      Q    I don't recall seeing --

17      A    I didn't take this picture.  I don't

18  know when it was taken.

19      Q    Did you see the concrete when you were

20  out there to inspect the work?

21           MS. TABOR:  Which inspection?

22           MR. MCKINNEY:  July 5, 2006.

23           THE WITNESS:  I don't recall.  We didn't

24      contract to do any additional concrete on

25      your house.  I know your wife had requested I


 1      do so.  However, I turned her request down

 2      because I already had realized I was being

 3      taken at this point.  

 4           It was nothing that was contracted for

 5      or that I agreed to do for you, and this was

 6      something you did on your own.


 8      Q    Did you make defendant aware that he had

 9  to deal with any other concrete?

10      A    I don't understand your question.

11      Q    Did you make defendant aware that he

12  would have to deal with any unused concrete that

13  is coming out of the truck --

14      A    That wasn't talked about, no.

15      Q    Are you aware that defendant's septic

16  tank is underneath that concrete?

17      A    I don't know anything about your septic

18  tank.  That wasn't anything that was in the

19  course of our business.

20      Q    Did defendant tell you where the septic

21  tank was during negotiations of this contract?

22      A    I don't recall there being any

23  discussions about your septic tank.

24      Q    Did you ask defendant where the septic

25  tank was?


 1      A    I don't recall having any specific

 2  conversations about your septic tank.

 3      Q    When you build decks, do you ask people

 4  where their septic tank is so you can avoid

 5  building on top of it?

 6           MS. TABOR:  Object to the form of the

 7      question.

 8           THE WITNESS:  What was your question?


10      Q    Do you normally try to build -- do you

11  normally build on top of people's septic tank?

12           MS. TABOR:  Same objection.

13           THE WITNESS:  I don't know what you are

14      talking about.  All I know is that the deck

15      was being built where your old deck was; so

16      if there was any issue of a septic tank, that

17      would be your responsibility to put that into

18      the contract.


20      Q    Did defendant explain to you where the

21  septic tank was?

22      A    I told you repeatedly I don't have any

23  specific recollection of discussing your septic

24  tank.

25      Q    Is there any requirement that you know


 1  of that -- we are still on page 12, is there any

 2  requirement that you know of that says that cross

 3  beams should be used on a post of this height for

 4  bracing?

 5      A    What was your question again?  Is there

 6  any regulations I know of?

 7      Q    Do you know of any requirements to put

 8  cross beams on posts of this height?

 9      A    Not specifically, but I am sure there is

10  something out there.  You can always make a deck

11  more secure by putting on cross beams.  There is

12  a lot more you can do.  You don't have any cross

13  beams on your deck because that is not what we

14  agreed to do.

15      Q    Let's go to page 13.  Is it normal for

16  Insulated Wall Systems to use ungalvanized nails

17  in the construction of a deck?

18      A    What does page 13 have to do with your

19  question?

20      Q    Ungalvanized nails rust rather quickly,

21  do they not?

22      A    I suppose so.

23      Q    Do you think -- are you finished?  

24      A    Yes.

25      Q    Do you think it is good and workmanlike


 1  to use ungalvanized nails in the construction of

 2  a deck?

 3      A    As a general rule, you want to use

 4  galvanized nails in the construction of a deck.

 5      Q    And if it was determined that Insulated

 6  Wall Systems did not use galvanized nails, would

 7  the conclusion be it was not good and

 8  workmanlike?

 9      A    Not necessarily, you can always add

10  nails if you thought there were some that weren't

11  galvanized.  

12      Q    Let's turn to page 15 in the

13  photographs, bottom left corner.

14           What do you think you are looking at

15  there?

16      A    You said the bottom left of the page?  

17      Q    Page 15, bottom left.

18      A    It looks like some railing post.

19      Q    The picture on the right is the same

20  picture just moved out further; is that correct?

21      A    I don't know what you mean.

22      Q    The picture on the right bottom is the

23  same picture as left, it is just zoomed out?

24      A    It is not the same picture.

25      Q    Similar?


 1           MS. TABOR:  I will object to that to the

 2      extent these two photographs do not depict

 3      the same image.

 4           THE WITNESS:  The sign is a different

 5      color.  The door is a different color.

 6           MR. MCKINNEY:  I agree with that.


 8      Q    Let's look at the bottom left.  You said

 9  that looks like a rail attached to a 4 by 4 or

10  something similar --

11      A    It is hard to tell.

12      Q    Do you think the attachment of that rail

13  is adequate?

14      A    In this photograph, there appears to be

15  a 2 by 4 that is not completely secure to the

16  post.  I'm not sure how long after the fact this

17  photograph was taken.

18           If this day is correct, August 14, 2006,

19  I am assuming that this picture was taken two

20  years after it was built.  I don't have any

21  recollection of the deck looking like that when

22  the job was completed in 2006.  

23      Q    Looking at that picture, the left rail,

24  the rail that is coming up this way, do you think

25  that is adequately connected to the 2 by 4 --


 1           MS. TABOR:  Object to the form of the

 2      question.


 4      Q    Do you see it attached to only about a

 5  half-inch of the 4 by 4?

 6           MS. TABOR:  Same objection.  You are not

 7      making clear what you are talking about.

 8           MR. MCKINNEY:  All right.


10      Q    Turn to page 17.  Do you have any idea

11  what those pictures are?

12      A    I can only guess.  I don't know what

13  they are.

14      Q    Earlier you gave testimony that there

15  was a problem with the -- I can't recall the

16  exact words you were using, but we were talking

17  about the bolts, and you were talking about it

18  was your understanding that there was rotten wood

19  or something under that right area of the deck.  

20           Is that what you think you are seeing in

21  these pictures?

22      A    It may be.  Here again, I wasn't on site

23  to see it.  It was brought to my attention that

24  there was some pre-existing damage to the

25  structural lumber in that area, and it was not


 1  part of our contract to correct that.  It was

 2  your responsibility and you chose not to do

 3  anything about it, and that is the way it is.

 4      Q    Did you order your workers just to go

 5  ahead and nail that aspect --

 6      A    To repair the deck, yes, and they were

 7  going to put a 4 by 4 post to support that up

 8  against the wall of the house, which you refused

 9  to let them do.

10      Q    You did order your workers to do that

11  and the answer was yes; is that correct?

12      A    You would have to read back the

13  testimony.

14           MS. TABOR:  Objection.  It has been

15      asked and answered.


17      Q    Did you order your workers to nail the

18  deck up --

19           MS. TABOR:  It has been asked and

20      answered.

21           MR. MCKINNEY:  Okay.  Off the record.  

22               (Off the record.)        


24      Q    Let's finish up the deck.  In the stairs

25  of the deck, do you think it is possible that


 1  steps of different height could be a tripping

 2  hazard?

 3           MS. TABOR:  I will object to the form of

 4      the question to the extent it implies facts

 5      not in evidence.

 6           MR. MCKINNEY:  Okay.


 8      Q    Did you measure the steps on the deck?

 9      A    Of course not.  No one goes out and

10  measures every step on a deck.  That is kind of

11  silly.  There is no point for me to do that.  

12  These guys were subcontractors.  I give them the

13  dimensions and tell them basically what we need

14  to build, and basically they go out and build it.  

15  So the answer is no, I don't go around measuring

16  every step.

17      Q    Let's look at page 7 of the photos,

18  Exhibit 27.  Do you see that step that is sitting

19  on a 2 by 6 or something?

20      A    The middle photograph?

21      Q    Yes.

22      A    Yes, I see that.

23      Q    What is the width of a 2 by 6 that it's

24  sitting on?

25           MS. TABOR:  I will object to that to the


 1      extent there is no way to tell if that is a 2

 2      by 6.


 4      Q    There's no way of telling if that's a 2

 5  by 6?

 6           MS. TABOR:  I will still object.


 8      Q    What do you think it is sitting on?

 9      A    It is a piece of wood.  I don't know

10  what dimension it is.

11      Q    So you measured none of the steps?

12      A    I already answered that question.

13      Q    Look at page 14, middle picture to the

14  right.  Are there any pickets missing there?

15      A    I'm not sure they are missing.  If you

16  are asking about that second stair up, that

17  doesn't seem to have any pickets attached, there

18  is no handrail there and I vaguely remember some

19  conversation and the guy said you were

20  complaining about the location of the pickets

21  there at all.

22      Q    What is the purpose of pickets?

23      A    They could have many purposes.  They

24  could be used to support the hand rail, up on the

25  top of the deck you can use them to keep things


 1  from falling off the deck.

 2      Q    So in that particular area, do you think

 3  something can fall through there?

 4      A    Anything is possible.

 5      Q    In your estimation, what is the width?  

 6  Can you measure that?  Can you estimate?

 7           MS. TABOR:  I will object to this

 8      photograph.  It will be nothing more than

 9      sheer speculation from a photograph to make

10      such an estimate -- if he can answer.

11           THE WITNESS:  It would be easy to add a

12      couple of pickets there if that was desired.  

13      However, like I said, I think this goes back

14      to the problem with you changing your mind

15      and having the guys change things all the

16      time.  

17           I don't remember if they left it this

18      way or they had pickets there and you ordered

19      them to remove them, I don't remember.  

20           But like I said, it is a very minor

21      issue, either add pickets there or remove

22      them.  I think they cost about 89 cents a

23      piece.


25      Q    So they could have been added if they


 1  were not put there in the first place?

 2      A    They certainly could have been added,

 3  sure.

 4      Q    Let's move on to the windows.  I guess

 5  we have the contract, Exhibit 4.  We have the two

 6  reports we have been looking at, and your report,

 7  Exhibit 19, 21 and 20.

 8           Did you provide argon gas in the windows

 9  that you ordered for defendant's residence?

10      A    Did I provide argon gas?

11      Q    Well, let me put it this way.  Let's go

12  back to the contract.  

13           Let me strike that question and start

14  over again.  

15           Let's go back to Exhibit 4, the

16  contract.  What windows were ordered in this

17  contract for defendant's residence?

18      A    The question is what windows were

19  ordered?

20      Q    Yes.

21      A    Exactly what it says, model 40 vinyl

22  replacement windows, as follows:  One slider over

23  kitchen sink, two double hungs beside the

24  fireplace, one double hung framed into the

25  basement wall, nine double hungs, same


 1  dimensions, all windows white in color, half

 2  screens, grids, up front windows only with Low-E

 3  glazing and argon gas.  No work to inside walls,

 4  on windows that are being reframed.

 5      Q    Were the windows that are installed in

 6  defendant's residence have argon gas?

 7      A    That was subject to a lot of debate; but

 8  from the documentation, it seems like the argon

 9  gas was left off.

10           The reason for that was that typically

11  when I ordered Low-E glazing on a window, the

12  manufacturer typically added the argon gas

13  automatically without having to specifically

14  request it.

15           So I wrote "argon gas" on this work

16  order expecting there to be argon gas; and if

17  there was no argon gas, then therefore it was an

18  oversight that could have been easily rectified.

19      Q    How would that have been rectified?

20      A    You could have either deducted from the

21  amount owed for the windows, what the additional

22  charge for argon gas would have been, which was a

23  very small amount of money.  

24           I think that is something that

25  reasonable people would agree on, and even at the


 1  worst case scenario, you could pop the sashes out

 2  of the windows and have them replaced with sashes

 3  that have argon gas.

 4      Q    Did you offer to do that in defendant's

 5  case?

 6      A    In your case, it got to the point where

 7  I realized there was no point in doing anything

 8  further than we had already done to satisfy you.  

 9  You had proven yourself to be unreasonable and

10  were expecting things to be provided to you free

11  of charge that you had not contracted for or had

12  agreed to pay for.

13           So after completing everything we could

14  on these work contracts, it became apparent to me

15  that the only way to ever get you to pay one

16  penny would be to sue you in a court of law,

17  which is exactly the course of action I took in

18  this matter.

19      Q    When did you find out the windows did

20  not have argon gas?

21      A    I don't know the specific date, it was  (LIE)

22  sometime -- I don't know the specific day.  To

23  this day, I am not exactly clear.  I don't have a

24  clear understanding of why they didn't come with

25  the argon gas.


 1      Q    Pull out Exhibit 23.  And also Exhibit

 2  12.  My question is -- I will establish this in

 3  just a second, these exhibits.

 4           Exhibit 12, let's look at that one

 5  first.  That is your window insulated wall

 6  systems order form?

 7      A    I think we have identified that already,

 8  yes.

 9      Q    And that is the order form you wrote up

10  and sent to Lansing Building Products?

11      A    Correct.

12      Q    Does it have argon gas on there?

13      A    No, it simply says Low-E, yes.  And here

14  again, like I just said, typically when I would

15  order the windows, I was accustomed to get the

16  argon gas added with the Low-E without any

17  special request.

18      Q    It comes automatically; is that what I

19  am understanding?

20      A    I don't know how better to say what I

21  just said.

22      Q    Let's refer to Exhibit 23.  Now, we have

23  identified that a letter, or you have, from

24  Atrium to Mr. And Mrs. McKinney.  Is that your

25  previous testimony?


 1      A    That's correct.

 2      Q    Would you read the bottom paragraph of

 3  the first page, please, sir -- you have

 4  identified --

 5           MS. TABOR:  Hold on.


 7      Q    I want to be sure I have laid foundation

 8  for this letter.  You testified earlier, Atrium

 9  is the manufacturer of Windjammer Windows; is

10  that correct?  

11           And this is a letter you also identified

12  as Chris Riley, director of marketing to Mr. and

13  Mrs. McKinney?

14           MS. TABOR:  Did you ask him had he

15      previously identified this as Atrium?  

16           MR. MCKINNEY:  That's what I am asking.

17           MS. TABOR:  Restate the question.


19      Q    You previously identified this as a

20  letter from Atrium, the manufacturer of

21  Windjammer Windows, to Mr. and Mrs. McKinney?

22      A    Yes.

23      Q    You have also testified that argon gas

24  comes typically with windows anytime you specify

25  Low-E.


 1      A    Repeat that.

 2      Q    Why don't you give me your testimony

 3  again concerning this order form.  When you say

 4  yes to Low-E, what does that mean?

 5           MS. TABOR:  At the time he filled out --

 6           MR. MCKINNEY:  At the time he filled out

 7      this specific order for our contract.

 8           THE WITNESS:  As I said when I ordered

 9      Low-E, it was typically provided with argon  (LIE)

10      gas without any traditional specifications to

11      order it.  That is why there is nothing on

12      this form that says argon gas, yes or no.  If

13      I ordered the Low-E, then I would typically

14      expect it or I wouldn't have written it on

15      your contract.


17      Q    Would you read the bottom paragraph of

18  the letter, then.  

19      A    You are referring to Exhibit 23?

20      Q    Yes.

21      A    We offer Low-E gas as an option with

22  argon and without argon.  We have never combined

23  the two into one option package.  The list price

24  for Low-E gas is $16.00.  To add argon gas there

25  is an additional $8.00 list price charge.  I


 1  cannot reveal Ted Lansing's cost, but I will say

 2  that their cost is more than $3.00, so I doubt

 3  that a dealer would sell that option to a

 4  homeowner for that amount.

 5           Now, of course, I did not order these

 6  windows from Atrium, so my pricing arrangements,

 7  my option arrangements is all through Ted Lansing

 8  Corporation.  So the fact that Atrium may not

 9  have ever offered the two in one option package

10  is irrelevant to me.

11           Here again, I bought these from Ted

12  Lansing Corporation, and I would imagine that  (LIE)

13  deal was worked out between me and my sales rep

14  from Ted Lansing Corporation.  I never had any

15  contractual arrangement with Atrium Windows and

16  Doors.  I've never bought anything directly from

17  Atrium Windows and Doors.  This sentence about

18  never combining the two in one option package is

19  not relevant to our situation.  

20      Q    Look at Exhibit 28 and Exhibit 30 -- 28A

21  and 30A.  

22           MS. TABOR:  The two brochures?

23           MR. MCKINNEY:  Yes.


25      Q    Did you give defendant those two


 1  brochures or brochures concerning those windows

 2  at the time of negotiations, discussions?

 3      A    I don't have any specific recollection.   (LIE)

 4  However, since I wrote that you were getting the

 5  model 40 window, I assume that I gave you this

 6  Series 40 brochure, but I don't have any specific

 7  recollection of that since it was two and a half

 8  years ago.

 9      Q     Did you present defendant with a Series

10  60 window and brochure at the time of meetings?

11      A    No, I don't believe so. (LIE)

12      Q    Is there a copyright date on those

13  brochures that you see anywhere or a date printed

14  or anything like that?

15      A    Tell me specifically what you are

16  referencing so I can answer your question.

17      Q    Here's what I want to know from you, my

18  reading of those brochures indicates that Low-E

19  and argon gas are options.  Is that what you see

20  in those brochures?

21      A    All these windows can be purchased with

22  or without Low-E and argon gas.

23      Q    So it doesn't come standard with it?

24      A    I don't believe it does on the model

25  40.  I will have to read the brochure for the 60,


 1  if that is what you are asking.

 2      Q    It is right there on the back.  You can

 3  read it.

 4      A    No, it is not on the back.

 5      Q    Flip it over.

 6      A    What is your question?

 7      Q    My question is, doesn't that brochure

 8  indicate that argon gas is an option, not a

 9  standard feature of the Series 60?

10      A    That may be true.  Here again, they

11  change the specifications for these windows from

12  time to time, so I'm not sure when this brochure

13  was printed.  At the time your windows were

14  ordered, 60 series may have well incorporated

15  that into the windows at that point.  I am really

16  not sure.

17           I know at some point the State of

18  Georgia started requiring Low-E glazing on all

19  windows for new construction, and I think around

20  that time is when most of the window

21  manufacturers started adding Low-E to all their

22  windows and didn't really require it as an option

23  anymore.  But since I don't know the date these

24  were printed, they are not relevant to that.

25      Q    Did you coordinate the work between the


 1  window installer and the siding installer?

 2      A    Here again, they are subcontractors, I

 3  give them the address.  I give them the

 4  requirements, what needs to be done, and for the

 5  most part they set their own scheduling.

 6      Q    So the answer is no or yes or, what is

 7  the answer?  Did you coordinate between the

 8  window installer and siding installer?

 9      A    Well, to some extent, sure.

10      Q    Let's go to the pictures again.  And we

11  still have the exhibits for the window

12  installation.

13           Let's go to page 19 of the pictures.  Is

14  it plaintiff's contention that the windows were

15  installed correctly?

16           MS. TABOR:  Which picture?

17           MR. MCKINNEY:  On the top.

18           THE WITNESS:  These windows were

19      installed by Jimmy Staylor, so they were

20      probably the most competent window

21      installers, and I would stand by his work any

22      day of the week.

23           I am sure they are installed correctly.  

24      If you are referring to the jagged edge

25      around the window where the stone had to be


 1      broken away to remove the old metal window,

 2      that is to be expected.  

 3           As a matter of fact, I think he did a

 4      very good job of limiting the amount of

 5      damage that had to be done to that stone

 6      facing in order to remove the old window to

 7      properly install the new window.

 8           And as I told you, we are not stone

 9      masons and as my window installer told you,

10      it is not our responsibility to go back and

11      do any masonry work around the windows.  So

12      this is exactly what I explained to you.  It

13      is actually better than what I explained to

14      you.  So yes, I think he did a good job

15      installing those windows.


17      Q    At the top picture, do you see any  

18  Sheetrock visible?

19      A    I can't tell what that is.  I can't tell

20  the particulars of the way your windows were

21  framed.

22      Q    When you came out to inspect the window,

23  did you inspect that area around the window?

24      A    What area?

25      Q    Around say up there at the top of page


 1  19, the top picture?

 2      A    It looks to me like the window is

 3  installed correctly.  It was your responsibility

 4  to do any corrective work to the stone around the

 5  window.

 6      Q    I am not discussing the stone around the

 7  window.  This isn't about that.  This is about

 8  sealing the window and protecting the wall from

 9  the environment.

10           If that window was not sealed in any

11  way, is that a proper installation?

12      A    I am sure it was secured.

13      Q    With screws?

14      A    Typically.

15      Q    Is there any type of flashing that is

16  supposed to be --

17      A    No.  There is nothing that we contracted

18  for to build flashing around these windows on the

19  stone, of course not.

20      Q    Is flashing a normal part of window

21  installation?

22      A    No, it is not. (LIE)

23      Q    Flashing is something extra that has to

24  be specified in the contract?

25      A    If it needs it, that is correct.


 1      Q    Now, you say you install windows and

 2  siding to the manufacturers' instruction?

 3      A    Yes, my subcontractors do that.

 4      Q    Let's look at Exhibit 9.

 5           You have identified that document as a

 6  vinyl siding installation manual -- at least read

 7  it.  

 8      A    I haven't read that.

 9      Q    Go ahead.

10           MS. TABOR:  I think what he was just

11      trying to say that you just read the name of

12      it into the record.


14      Q    Have you ever seen this document before?

15      A    No. (LIE)

16      Q    Does this document represent anything to

17  do with the industry standards that you know of?

18      A    I just told you I have never seen it.    (LIE)

19  I haven't read it.

20      Q    Is Royal a member of the Vinyl Siding

21  Institute?

22      A    I don't know.  I don't know the roster

23  for the Vinyl Siding Institute's membership role.

24  I have no idea.

25      Q    Look on page 19.


 1           MS. TABOR:  Of Exhibit 9?

 2           MR. MCKINNEY:  Of Exhibit 9, yes.

 3           THE WITNESS:  I am also noting this is

 4      updated October 2004, which is after the date

 5      of the contract.

 6           MR. MCKINNEY:  You are right.


 8      Q    Okay.  Windows, doors and roof lines --

 9  why don't you read that over for me.

10      A    Are you asking me about the statement

11  that says, Vinyl siding should be installed over

12  a continuous weather resistant barrier to stop

13  the intrusion of incidental water?

14      Q    That's correct.  And the one down below

15  it.  

16      A    Which one down below it?

17      Q    Under "Flashing," it says,

18  Code-compliant flashing; would you read that into

19  the record.

20      A    Flashing.  Code-compliant flashing

21  should be integrated with the weather resistant

22  barrier and applied around windows, doors and

23  other openings.  

24           Flashing should also be applied to

25  inside and outside corners and the intersection


 1  of walls and roofing to prevent water

 2  infiltration.

 3      Q    Is it your testimony that defendant was

 4  supposed to have asked and specified all flashing

 5  around windows and doors in the contract?

 6      A    The way the windows and siding were

 7  installed on your home is the way it is done in

 8  the industry.

 9           What this refers to, this could be

10  referring to new construction where you don't

11  have the layers of old siding and the weather

12  barrier behind the old siding as we had in your

13  project.

14           So not only did we have the old siding

15  with the sheathing behind it, we also added two

16  more layers of a weather resistant barrier before

17  the siding was installed; so you basically had

18  four levels, four layers of weather resistant

19  barrier.

20      Q    Can you testify to what was done around

21  the windows?  Is that what I had?  Did you

22  actually see the windows being cut out?

23           MS. TABOR:  I am going to object to the

24      form of the question to the extent it is a

25      compound and convoluted question.



 2      Q    I'm sorry.  Did you actually see the old

 3  windows removed?

 4      A    I was not on site to witness the removal

 5  of the old windows.

 6      Q    So you cannot testify to what defendant

 7  had around his windows at the time of the

 8  installation of those windows?

 9      A    I don't understand your question.  What

10  are you referring to?

11      Q    You were saying earlier, in my case or

12  in defendant's case, I had all these layers when

13  the window was installed.  But you cannot testify

14  to that directly, can you?

15      A    Well, I know we didn't remove the siding  (LIE)

16  from your house.  So, yes, I can testify to that.  

17  We did not remove the siding; that was not part

18  of the contract.  And if we didn't remove the

19  siding, then we would not have been removing the

20  sheathing behind it.

21      Q    What happens if you removed up to six

22  inches around the windows of siding, foam and all

23  those layers?

24           MS. TABOR:  Hypothetically?

25           MR. MCKINNEY:  Hypothetically.


 1           THE WITNESS:  I don't see what you are

 2      getting at.


 4      Q    In the installation of the new windows,

 5  if all the barriers you are talking about was

 6  removed, what would have to be done?

 7      A    Nothing in particular, just build it

 8  back out so the wall's level.

 9      Q    What would you build it back out with?

10      A    Styrofoam, the old siding, whatever

11  fits.

12      Q    Would you say that if all of that was

13  cut out when the windows were installed -- if you

14  want to see what I am talking about, you can go

15  to page 25 of the pictures.

16           MS. TABOR:  If you want to talk about

17      page 25, you need to tell him page 25.

18           MR. MCKINNEY:  I believe you all saw

19      this with your own two eyes, page 22 of the

20      pictures --

21           MS. TABOR:  Do you have a a question in

22      there, sir?


24      Q    Page 25.  This is what the windows

25  looked like when the old windows were cut out,


 1  and the new windows were put in.

 2           MS. TABOR:  Do you have a question

 3      there?


 5      Q    What was done to repair all that damage,

 6  to put all those barriers back in there to

 7  prevent water from getting down in there?

 8           MS. TABOR:  I will object to that to the

 9      extent it calls for facts not in evidence.  

10      You have not had this witness identify to his

11      recollection what is depicted on page 25.


13      Q    What I am asking him is, if the windows

14  were cut out so that exposed areas like that --

15           MS. TABOR:  Like what?

16           MR. MCKINNEY:  Like on page 25 of

17      Exhibit 27.

18           MS. TABOR:  You can answer, if you can.

19           THE WITNESS:  I don't understand what

20      his question is.


22      Q    You went into a house, or on the outside

23  of the house, and cut the windows out, the old

24  windows out, using a circular saw, four to six

25  inches beyond the jamb of the windows, exposing


 1  the wall envelope of the house to the weather.  

 2           What do you do in a situation like that

 3  to make it waterproof?

 4      A    First off, I am not sure what you are

 5  talking about, cutting a six-inch diameter around

 6  these windows.  

 7           If I recall, you had metal windows that

 8  had a nailing flange that was behind the window.  

 9  Typically those nailing flanges are not more than

10  two inches.  So you pull out the old window and  (LIE)

11  the new one fits right back in its place, and you

12  just run the siding back up to the window.

13      Q    Let's turn to page 22, the pictures.  

14  This is a picture of the slider, which I think

15  you saw.

16           MS. TABOR:  Which picture?

17           MR. MCKINNEY:  The top four are the same

18      picture.

19           MS. TABOR:  You are representing to the

20      witness that the top four pictures depicted

21      on page 22 are the sliding window in the

22      kitchen?

23           MR. MCKINNEY:  That's correct.


25      Q    Does it look like the water can get into


 1  the wall envelope of the house?

 2      A    Well, the top pictures appear to show

 3  metal flashing that is abutting up to the

 4  window.  Given the circumstances of what we were

 5  dealing with here, that is about the best you can

 6  do.  Caulk that and that is sufficient.  That is  (LIE)

 7  all you can do in this situation.

 8           The pictures below that, I'm not sure

 9  what they represent.  At one point it looked like

10  you or your wife or someone had been pulling on

11  the siding underneath the window and here again

12  molested it and pulled it away from the side of

13  house, and that seems to be what I remember

14  seeing on my inspection.

15      Q    Would you agree that the windows were

16  installed back to the frame and not to the

17  envelope of the house?

18      A    The windows are designed to be installed

19  to the 2 by 4 framing of the house, and that's

20  how they were installed.

21      Q    A sunken in look, if you will?  

22      A    Unless you remove the siding from the

23  house, you are adding two layers of siding to an

24  existing structure, of course you will be

25  building the wall out.  


 1      Q    The window could not have been installed

 2  out to the envelope of the house?

 3      A    Absolutely not. (LIE)

 4      Q    Did you explain all this to defendant?

 5      A    Everything was explained to the

 6  defendant.  

 7      Q    That the windows were going to be sunken

 8  in like that?

 9      A    That the windows were exactly where the

10  old windows were.  

11      Q    That is true that you had the option to

12  recommend windows that would've been out to the

13  envelope of the house; is that true?

14      A    I had the option to -- you need to

15  clarify.

16           MS. TABOR:  Read the question back,

17      please.

18               (Question read back.)

19           THE WITNESS:  That I had the option?  Is

20  that what I heard?


22      Q    That's what you heard.

23      A    You know, I suppose, the options are

24  limitless.  There are a hundred things that could

25  have been done to this house.  For purposes of


 1  our conversation, for purposes of our contract,

 2  we were taking out your old metal windows,

 3  putting in the new vinyl windows here, just like

 4  the contract says.

 5      Q    But what I did hear you say under

 6  testimony is that you created a situation where

 7  you had to use these break metal pieces as

 8  flashings, and that is the best you could do.  

 9           I don't understand that.  It seems to

10  me, since you had the option of choosing or

11  offering as a salesman a particular window, why

12  in the world choose a window that was going to

13  cause you problems in the future -- that would be

14  hard to flash?

15           MS. TABOR:  I will object to the form of

16      the question -- if it was a question.


18      Q    Why did you recommend these style

19  windows when this problem was facing you?

20      A    These type of windows are installed in

21  your type of home every day of the week.  It has

22  been done thousands of times.  There is nothing

23  unique about your situation.  It isn't my job to

24  show you what to do to your house.  This is what

25  I offered, you accepted.


 1      Q    Did you cause yourself more trouble by

 2  recommending these windows?

 3      A    The only way I cause myself trouble is

 4  by doing business with a person like you.  

 5  Otherwise, like I just testified, this is done

 6  every day of the week on homes like yours, same

 7  type of replacement windows used, and there are

 8  no problems doing it.

 9      Q    Page 22, top windows.  Is it your

10  estimation that that break metal piece is going

11  to prevent water from entering?

12      A    It's my testimony that all the work that  (LIE)

13  was done to those windows was the best you could

14  do under the circumstances with what we had to

15  work with.  And it is exactly what we contracted

16  to do.

17      Q    Page 23, these are pictures of the

18  corners of some of the windows with caulk.  So

19  you would agree that you caulked each one of the

20  windows in that fashion?

21      A    The windows need to be caulked after

22  they are installed in certain areas to do the

23  best you can to prevent water infiltration.  

24  Whether these pictures represent work we did, I

25  have no idea.


 1           Here again, these pictures seem to be

 2  dated two years after the work was done.  So what

 3  has happened in those two years, I can't testify

 4  to.  I know after my guys got done with them,  (LIE)

 5  they all looked good to me.

 6      Q    Let's move on.  Is it your contention

 7  that everything is installed to industry

 8  standards or manufacturer specifications?

 9           MS. TABOR:  Object to the form of the

10      question.


12      Q    Is it your contention that fanfold, the

13  quarter inch fanfold foam that was purchased and

14  placed on defendant's residence, that was

15  installed in accordance with the manufacturer's

16  specifications?

17      A    Yes, to the best of my knowledge, it

18  was.

19      Q    Let's look at Exhibit 11.

20           Did plaintiff use GreenGuard fanfold

21  siding on defendant's residence?

22      A    I believe that is the case.

23      Q    And the documents you are looking at,

24  does that cover the installation of that fanfold?

25      A    What is your question?


 1      Q    My question is, does this accurately

 2  represent an installation manual for the

 3  GreenGuard fanfold used on defendant's

 4  residence?  

 5      A    No, this has no application to your

 6  residence.  This document clearly says that these

 7  requirements apply to the following applications:  

 8  Residential new construction and next, all

 9  exterior walls in retrofit construction in which

10  the existing weather resistant barrier located

11  under the old siding has been removed.  So no,

12  this does not apply to your house.

13      Q    Look at section 2 on E under

14  installation instructions; does it call for

15  taping the seams?

16      A    I just told you this document has no

17  relevance to your project.  

18      Q    I understand that.

19      A    This was not a situation where we had

20  new construction.  This was a 20-year-old

21  dilapidated house.  We did not remove the  (LIE)

22  existing siding, nor did we remove the weather

23  barrier underneath it.

24           This is irrelevant.

25      Q    Does the contract call for taping of the


 1  seams?

 2      A    There is nothing about taping the seams

 3  of the GreenGuard fanfolds.

 4      Q    How about taping any seams?

 5      A    There is a reference to taping the

 6  seams, but that was regarding the plastic house

 7  wrap.

 8      Q    Was that done?

 9      A    Well, I wasn't there to see it.  I am

10  not certain if it was done or not.  However, if

11  it wasn't done, I can't see any harm that that

12  would do.  

13           If I recall, I think this is something

14  you insisted upon out of ignorance; because when

15  you consider that you already have the old

16  siding, the weather barrier underneath it, and

17  you added another quarter inch fanfold barrier,

18  and then we added house wrap, and then we are

19  adding vinyl on top of that.  

20           I think it is kind of silly to suggest

21  that the seams would need to be taped or that it

22  would make any difference at that point.

23      Q    You have no testimony whether it was

24  done or not?

25      A    I wasn't there to witness it.  I wrote


 1  it down.  So I imagine I told the guys to do it.   (LIE)

 2  If the guys didn't do it, I don't know.  If not,

 3  they might have thought it was a bad idea.

 4      Q    Do you have any facts or evidence to say

 5  that it was done?

 6           MS. TABOR:  I want to object to the

 7      question; he testified now twice that he

 8      wasn't there to see whether it was done or

 9      not.

10           MR. MCKINNEY:  I realize that, but I am

11      asking if he had facts or evidence other than

12      his own eyeballs that it was done.

13           THE WITNESS:  I don't know how else to

14      answer that, other than what I already have.


16      Q    Vinyl siding.  Did you tell the

17  defendant the rotten wood would be removed and

18  replaced with wood?

19      A    No.  (LIE)

20      Q    Do you ever tell customers that?

21      A    Depends on the circumstances.  There

22  could be rotten areas of wood on the house.  Some

23  areas are more important than others.  

24           A lot of times if fascia boards are

25  completely rotten, then they have to be pulled


 1  off and replaced, because you are nailing

 2  directly into them, and that is what is holding

 3  the material to the board.  

 4           So in those situations, I will usually

 5  specify how many linear feet of fascia board will

 6  be replaced and with what dimension of lumber and

 7  charge accordingly.  

 8           Other areas, like on your house, the

 9  best I recall is that your house was in a

10  dilapidated condition.  It looks as though the

11  home had never been painted or stained in 20

12  years.  So it was difficult to casually observe

13  how much rotten siding there was on the home.

14           As a general rule, they are attaching

15  the siding material to the studs on the house.  

16  So when you have a home such as yours, pretty

17  much all the siding is damaged to some extent.  

18  So therefore, if certain areas are just

19  crumbling, then, the installers can fill the void

20  with insulation or whatever they have to do to

21  make sure the area is as wide and flat as

22  possible when they're working in this area.

23      Q    So you don't give your employees -- not

24  employees, I'm sorry -- contractors,

25  subcontractors, any instructions as to what to do


 1  when they come to rotten wood, just do the best

 2  you can or what?

 3      A    They know how to handle it.  They're

 4  professionals.  They know how to handle it.  Each

 5  situation is different, and they handle it

 6  correctly.  

 7      Q    So it is common practice in your

 8  industry to use multiple layers of fiber board?

 9      A    If siding has been removed in an area,

10  then the objective is to fill the void so that

11  someone pressing on it doesn't feel the void.  It

12  doesn't serve any structural purpose since it is

13  not being nailed into.  It is not supporting the

14  siding, so it is irrelevant.

15      Q    Doesn't nailing in the fiber board

16  reduce the wind-load resistance of the siding?

17      A    I don't understand your question.

18      Q    Doesn't using fiber board reduce the

19  wind-load resistance of the siding?  In other

20  words, if you had nothing but fiber board,

21  wouldn't its resistance to wind be reduced?

22      A    You are not making sense to me.  I don't

23  know what fiber board you are referring to.

24      Q    The fanfold, that's what you refer to.

25      A    That's not fiber board.


 1      Q    Or fanfold, whatever it's called, what

 2  is the technical term for it?

 3      A    It's foam board insulation.  

 4      Q    Foam board insulation, okay.  

 5      A    And your question is?

 6      Q    At all areas where you removed rotten

 7  wood, wouldn't that reduce the wind-load

 8  resistance?

 9      A    Not necessarily.  I suppose if you

10  removed all the siding of a house and all you had

11  was fanfold, that might be an issue.  But a spot

12  here and there, no, I can't imagine that would

13  have any effect on the siding, wind load, or

14  anything else.

15      Q    Does Royal recommend just nailing siding

16  into the studs only?

17      A    As a general rule, the instructions

18  state that you should put a nail into every stud,

19  every 16 inches, however your studs are laid out

20  in the existing structure.

21      Q    Let's refer back to Exhibit No. 9, page

22  16.  I believe it is the page entitled, Preparing

23  The Walls.  Look where it says "Residing" and

24  read what it says.

25      A    You want me to read what it says?


 1      Q    Yes, sir.

 2      A         Residing.  Nail down loose boards of

 3  existing siding and replace any rotten ones.  Do

 4  not install vinyl siding over rotting wood.

 5           Next scrape off loose caulk and recaulk

 6  to protect doors, windows and other areas from

 7  moisture penetration.

 8      Q    Thank you.  That is plenty.

 9           When you face nail into a siding piece,

10  does that void the warranty?

11      A    Void the warranty of maybe the

12  individual piece?

13      Q    Right.  

14      A    Possibly.

15      Q    Why is that?

16      A    Well, if you don't do it carefully, it

17  can cause the board to warp.

18      Q    And that is due to what, or why is that

19  true?

20      A    Because vinyl siding moves on the wall.

21      Q    How does it move?

22      A    It expands and contracts.

23      Q    So when it's firmly nailed down, it

24  can't do that; is that correct?

25      A    That is true, but certain areas on the


 1  house have a less expansion and contraction and

 2  also depends on the length and size of the board

 3  being nailed.  

 4           Occasionally face nailing will help

 5  secure the very top board on a wall where you

 6  have to remove the nailing strip.  

 7           It has been one of the most effective

 8  ways to secure boards in that area that I have

 9  found; and as long as it is done carefully, it

10  works just fine.

11      Q    Turn to page 2 of Exhibit 27.

12           What do you think you are looking at?

13      A    Mostly some dirt and rocks.

14      Q    Did those rocks come from the old deck?   (LIE)

15      A    I have no idea where they came from.

16      Q    Did your workers dispose of all the deck

17  including the footers that they were sitting on?

18      A    Repeat your question.

19      Q    Did your worker dispose of all the deck

20  including the concrete that the poles were

21  sitting in of the old deck?  Did he dispose of

22  the entire old deck?

23      A    We disposed of everything we were  (LIE)

24  required to.  My understanding is, there was some

25  trade off too, because you had somewhat of a


 1  health hazard in your background.  You had a

 2  large above-ground pool with black water, and I

 3  know my guys dissembled that on your behalf and

 4  removed that.

 5      Q    Did they tell you that I paid them and

 6  contracted with them outside of your contract?

 7      A    All I know is there was a trade off  (LIE)

 8  between the cleanup versus removing that pool.  

 9  So my testimony is that everything that was

10  supposed to be removed from your property was.

11      Q    Okay.  Now, you sent me piles of

12  responses to interrogatories and requests for

13  admissions.  Are those all verified?  Do you

14  stand by all of your answers that were given in

15  those interrogatories?

16           MS. TABOR:  To the extent you are asking  (LIE)

17      him whether they have all been verified, I

18      don't know, I know one that has not been

19      verified.  We don't need to verify those

20      until they are introduced as evidence, and

21      they will be verified at the appropriate

22      time.  

23           If they are used as evidence in this

24      case, they will be verified.

25           MR. MCKINNEY:  Okay.  


 1           MS. TABOR:  And besides that, request

 2      for admissions are never verified, the only

 3      discovery responses ever verified are the

 4      interrogatories.

 5          MR. MCKINNEY:  That's all I have.  

 6                    EXAMINATION


 8      Q    Mr. Tabor, earlier in your testimony, I

 9  believe you used the term "employees" to

10  reference people who did work on behalf of the

11  plaintiff with regard to the defendant's home.  

12           Does Insulated Wall Systems in fact

13  employ anyone who actually did construction work

14  on this home?

15      A    No.  I just misspoke.  They are all  (LIE)

16  subcontractors.  No employees.

17      Q    With regard to your testimony concerning

18  problems concerning the slab, I was a little bit

19  confused.  

20           Could you basically restate in your own

21  words what your position is with regard to any

22  problem that now exists concerning the slab that

23  was constructed by the plaintiff on the back of

24  defendant's home?

25      A    Well, I think primarily what the  (LIE)


 1  defendant complains of is caused by his own

 2  actions, interfering with the construction of the

 3  slab by attempting to install a drain in the

 4  center of the slab and cutting a hole in the

 5  supports that were used to form the frame for the

 6  concrete.

 7      Q    Is your testimony that, subject to that

 8  interference and without that interference, the

 9  deck as contracted for and as you had instructed

10  subcontractor to do would have been in accordance

11  with what was contracted for?

12      A    That's correct.  (LIE)

13      Q    With regard to the deck, there was some

14  discussion with Mr. McKinney concerning your

15  offer to install an additional support on the

16  right side of the deck where I believe there was

17  some testimony concerning some rotten wood on the

18  house itself where it should be attached.  

19      A    Yes.

20      Q    Could you just explain in a little bit

21  more detail why that additional support, which

22  was not originally contracted for, was not

23  installed?

24      A    Because Mr. McKinney refused to have a  (LIE)

25  post installed in that location.  He claimed that


 1  he needed it for storage space, and therefore, we

 2  were prohibited from doing so.

 3      Q    With regard to the deck itself, how did

 4  the design of the deck come about?

 5      A    The defendant stated he wanted a deck to

 6  a certain dimension and the same location where

 7  the old deck stood, so it was primarily the

 8  defendant to --

 9      Q    Did you ever sketch out any sort of

10  graphic and give it to your subcontractors to

11  construct the deck?

12      A    No, just a certain dimension with a

13  simple staircase down to the backyard and that's

14  it.

15      Q    All right.  With regard to the windows

16  and the siding, I believe you used the phrase "It

17  was the best we could do or the best I could do"

18  with regard to the installation.

19           Were there other types of materials or

20  systems that could have been used on the

21  defendant's house that would have been of higher

22  quality?

23      A    Of course.  Certainly.  There is a

24  multitude of products on the market these days,

25  and back when this was done, that are more


 1  expensive products; but that is clearly what the

 2  defendant had budgeted for this project and what

 3  we agreed to do it for.

 4      Q    In an optimal world, where you could go

 5  out to the site and repair the home as you saw

 6  fit with unlimited means, what would be the basic

 7  components that you would have used to work on

 8  his home?

 9      A    Well, if money weren't an issue,

10  considering, like I said, the house was in

11  dilapidated condition, I would have removed all

12  the old siding, and the sheathing and redone

13  that, and then used a plywood siding with vinyl

14  on top of that and a new construction window.

15      Q    How long have you been in business?

16      A    Since 1989, almost 18 years.

17      Q    How many vinyl siding jobs would you say

18  you have done in that amount of time?

19      A    Oh, I would estimate somewhere in the

20  neighborhood of 1,500 to 2,000.

21      Q    How many times have you ended up in

22  litigation?

23      A    Twice. (LIE)

24           MS. TABOR:  That's all I have.

25           MR. MCKINNEY:  Nothing else.  


 1               (Deposition concluded at 2:58 p.m.)


























 1               E R R A T A  S H E E T

 2           Pursuant to Rule 30 (7)(e) of the

 3  Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and/or Georgia

 4  Code Annotated 81A-130(B)(6)(e), any changes in

 5  form or substance which you desire to make to

 6  your deposition testimony shall be entered upon

 7  the deposition with a statement of the reasons

 8  given for making them.

 9           To assist you in making any such

10  corrections, please use the form below.  If

11  supplemental or additional pages are necessary,

12  please furnish same and attach them to this

13  errata sheet.

14           I, the undersigned, JOHN TABOR, do

15  hereby certify that I have read the foregoing

16  deposition and that to the best of my knowledge

17  said deposition is true and accurate (with the

18  exception of the following corrections listed

19  below.)

20  Page_______Line_______Should read:____________________
21  Reason for change:____________________________________
22  Page_______Line_______Should read:____________________
23  Reason for change:____________________________________
24  Page_______Line_______Should read:____________________
25  Reason for change:____________________________________


 1  Page_______Line_______Should read:____________________
 2  Reason for change:____________________________________
 3  Page_______Line_______Should read:____________________
 4  Reason for change:____________________________________
 5  Page_______Line_______Should read:____________________
 6  Reason for change:____________________________________
 7  Page_______Line_______Should read_____________________
 8  Reason for change:____________________________________
 9  Page_______Line_______Should read_____________________
10  Page_______Line_______Should read_____________________
11  Reason for change:____________________________________
12  Page_______Line_______Should read_____________________
13  Reason for change:____________________________________
14  Page_______Line_______Should read_____________________
15  Reason for change:____________________________________
16  Page_______Line_______Should read_____________________
17  Reason for change:____________________________________
18  Page_______Line_______Should read_____________________
19  Reason for change:____________________________________
21  Signature                      _______________________
22  Sworn to and Subscribed before me_____________________
23  Notary Public:  This______day of _________, 2007.
24  My Commission Expires:



 2      Pursuant to the Official Code of Georgia
    Annotated 9-11-28, I make the following
 3  disclosure:
 4      Rajani Reporting, Inc. was hired by the party
    taking this deposition to provide court reporting
 5  services for this deposition.
 6      Financial arrangements between Rajani
    Reporting, Inc. and the parties to the deposition
 7  are the usual and customary fees charged by me
    for the original and one copy or copies to the
 8  other parties and any direct expenses for
    production of the same.  A financial discount
 9  will not be given to any party to this
        Further, Rajani Reporting, Inc. has not
11  entered into any contractual arrangement,
    financial or otherwise, with any person or entity
12  in this matter and thereby I am taking this
    deposition in full compliance with O.C.G.A.
13  15-14-37.
14      I hereby certify that the above disclosure
    statement is true and correct and that copies
15  have been furnished to all counsel and/or
18  _______________________________________________
      Meredith B. Cohen, Certified Court Reporter


 1               C E R T I F I C A T E


 6          I hereby certify that the foregoing    
 7  transcript is a true, correct, and complete
 8  record of the said proceedings; that I am not a
 9  relative, attorney, or counsel of any of the
10  parties; am not a relative of the attorney or
11  counsel for any of the parties, nor am I
12  financially interested in the action.
13          This, the 23rd day of February, 2007.
15                          ____________________________
                            Meredith B. Cohen
16                          Certified Court Reporter
                            Certificate No. B-2093









John Tabor has been doing this month after month and multiple times per month for years now!
You can do a search to see his current posts at
atlanta craigslist > atlanta > community > local news and views

Robyn McKinney and Ron McKinney Sued For Defamation 770 978-6396 (4083 Red Laurel Way, Snellville Ga)

Date: 2010-10-31, 3:19PM EDT Reply to: comm-yapat-2035280935@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]


Yes Friends, as I told you earlier Ron Mckinney and Robyn Mckinney were hiding in their home to avoid service of a Defamation Lawsuit brought against them by John Tabor. They would not answer when the Sheriff's Deputy came knocking on their door and they would not answer the door when a private service company attempted to serve them several times with the lawsuit. They were observed PEEKING OUT THE WINDOWS to see if it was safe to come outside.

We do not know if the McKinneys have dared set foot outside their home yet. However, we do know that an Order from the Superior Court of Gwinnett County filed May 11, 2009 found that that Ron Mckinney and Robyn Mckinney have willfully and deliberately concealed themselves to avoid service.
The Mckinney's clearly have no respect for our Judicial System, however, their pathetic and frivolous efforts to avoid this lawsuit have Failed.

WHAT COWARDS. What are the McKinneys so afraid of? If the Mckinneys only told the "truth" as they claim, then they should be looking forward to the Jury trial that is coming. Instead, they have run like frightened rats, doing everything possible to avoid having to appear in Court to answer the charges against them.

URGENT UPDATE: ROBYN AND RON LOSE AGAIN. Their attempt to have the Defamation suit against them dismissed was DENIED by the Order of the Honorable Judge Tom Davis of the Superior Court Of Gwinnett County on April 29, 2010. Therefore, the suit will go forward. The Mckinneys will be deposed. I will document every last detail of their multi-year long campaign of stalking me , slandering me and libeling me.

The Mckinneys writings about me are so nasty, vindictive and false that the Court ordered the writings Sealed so that they can not be published by the Mckinneys any longer.

Here is the hilarious part. Robyn McKinney actually testified in open Court that the law suit should be dismissed because she has no money and therefore there is nothing I can get from her. Sorry "Rockin Robyn" (one of her many blog monikers) but MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, you and your husband are going to be held accountable for your actions no matter how long it takes, no matter how much it costs me and no matter how little money you have.

Don't forget. Ron McKinney already owes me $29,000.00 from the Judgement I got against him on Jan. 19, 2009 . He has NOT PAID ONE PENNY as of today October 31, 2010. But dont worry friends, the collection actions have not even started yet.

* Location: 4083 Red Laurel Way, Snellville, GA

Location: 4083 Red Laurel Way, Snellville Ga
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

PostingID: 2035280935

This is just some of the testimony taken from John Tabor under oath at the SLAPP evidentiary hearing in the now current case on April 29, 2010:
8 THE COURT: Do you have additional witnesses?
9 MS. MCKINNEY: Your Honor, I guess at this point I
10 would like to call Mr. Tabor to the stand.
11 THE COURT: For cross-examination?
12 MS. MCKINNEY: I'm sorry?
13 THE COURT: For purposes of cross-examination?
14 MS. MCKINNEY: Mr. Tabor?
15 THE COURT: Yes.
16 MS. MCKINNEY: For purposes of --
17 THE COURT: You wish to cross-examine Mr. Tabor?
18 Say yes.
20 THE COURT: Come on up, Mr. Tabor. Have a seat.
21 (Whereupon, the witness was sworn.)
22 THE COURT: You are John Tabor; is that correct?
23 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
24 THE COURT: You are one of the Plaintiffs in this action? Page 71
1 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
2 THE COURT: All right. Go ahead.
5 Q Mr. Tabor, can you please state for the record when
6 we first met?
7 A I don't remember what date we first met.
8 Q Approximately how long ago was it?
9 A I'm guessing it was sometime back in 2004.
10 Q And can you identify or state how it is that we came
11 to meet?
12 A We came to meet to discuss a home improvement
13 project in your home.
14 THE COURT: Let me hold up just a minute.
15 (Whereupon, there was an off-the-record discussion.)
16 THE COURT: I'm going to suspend this matter so that
17 I can take up a criminal matter that we've been trying to
18 get done for the last two days. I'm going to release
19 y'a11 till 12 o'clock and we'll see at that time whether
20 we're breaking for lunch or whether or not we'll continue
21 forward. I anticipate this other matter will finish
22 before that. If y'all could clear some space I'd
23 appreciate it.
24 MS. MCKINNEY: When would you like us back?
25 THE COURT: 12 o'clock. It's five minutes till Page 72

1 11:00 now. You can step down.
2 (Whereupon, a break was taken.)
3 THE COURT: Come on back up, Mr. Tabor. I remind
4 you of course that you're under oath.
5 MR. TABOR: Yes, sir.
6 THE COURT: Ms. McKinney?
7 MR. MOORE: Your Honor, may I make a comment at this
8 time?
9 THE COURT: Sure.
10 MR. MOORE: I just wanted to correct the record.
11 You had said earlier when we started this hearing, you
12 had asked I think tangentially if the statements that we
13 put in our complaint are all the statements. We have
14 over 90 different statements. I just wanted to correct
15 that. If I misspoke I apologize. There are a lot of
16 statements that we did not put in our complaint that we
17 intend to bring out, many of which have nothing to do
18 with Gary Michael Hilton. They have to do with the IWS litigation.
19 THE COURT: My concern was earlier whether or not
20 you are alleging that statements made directly to the GBI
21 by Ms. McKinney or anybody else were part of your
22 lawsuit. You said no and I take you at your word.
23 MR. MOORE: Yes, sir. That's fine.
24 THE COURT: And you in fact stipulated to that. Am Page 73

1 I correct?
2 MR. MOORE: Yes.
3 THE COURT: All right. Go ahead, Ms. McKinney.
4 MS. MCKINNEY: Well, just to comment on that I have
5 no idea what he's talking about and that's not part of
6 the complaint at this point, so unless they are going to
7 amend their complaint with further statements, I think
8 what we're dealing with is what we --
9 THE COURT: Well, let's put it this way. For
10 purposes of me deciding whether or not the anti-SLAPP
11 statute applies, I'm going strictly on what's in the
12 complaint. I'm not allowing him to add anything to
13 what's on the paper. Okay.
14 MS. MCKINNEY: Thank you. I'm not sure exactly
15 where we left off at.
16 THE COURT: Well, ask a question.
17 MS. MCKINNEY: Okay.
18 BY MS. MCKINNEY: (Resuming)
19 Q I think we established that we met each other in
20 2004. Do you agree with that?
21 A I agree.
22 Q Okay. And where I was going next was to ask you in
23 2004 how did we come to meet each other?
24 THE COURT: He answered that question.
25 MS. MCKINNEY: He did answer that question? Okay. Page 74

1 BY MS. MCKINNEY: (Resuming)
2 Q Was there a Mack Hilton working for you at that
3 time?
4 A There was a Gary Hilton working for me, yes.
5 Q When I asked you how you came to come into contact
6 With us, did you not tell me that there was a man named Mack
7 Hilton?
8 A No.
9 Q You've never told me the name Mack Hilton?
10 A No.
11 Q At any time, youíve never told me the name Mack
12 Hilton?
13 A I don't know how many times to tell you no.
14 Q In your deposition you did not use the name Mack
15 Hilton?
16 A In what context? What are you talking about?
17 Q Have you ever identified Gary Michael Hilton to me
18 or to my husband as a person named Mack Hilton?
19 A No. Iíve always identified him as Gary Hilton. He
20 Did call himself Mack but I didnít.
21 Q You never referred to him as Mack Hilton?
22 A No.
23 Q Not in your deposition?
24 A I just explained that the best I can.
25 MR. MOORE: Been asked and answered twice. Page 75

1 THE COURT: Twice is about my limit.
2 MS. MCKINNEY: Okay. We'll come back to that then.

Do you see several conflicts here with this John Tabor testimony from the hearing and with Mr. Tabor's testimony in his deposition from above where he repeatedly in 2007 referred to Gary Hilton as Mack Hilton and that he was not an employee of his?

Mr. Moore argues this is not a material lie (because it is not relevant to the Judges decision), but what do you think is really going on?


page created with Easy Designer