Someone tweeked important parts of this testimony. Someone edited what was said, both by Jana Tabor and Ron McKinney. Is that just another acceptable part of this stupid game too? I guess we will just have to wait and see. I will be highlighting all the differences.

                              STATE OF GEORGIA

            INC.,                    )
                      Plaintiff,     )
                                     )  CIVIL ACTION FILE
                  vs.                )
                                     )  NO. 05A06942-9
            RON MCKINNEY,            )
                      Defendant.     )

                                    * * *

                         DEPOSITIONOF RON MCKINNEY

                            Thursday, 10:20 a.m.

                                July 27, 2006

                        Location:  Casey & Associates
                             4175 Clairmont Road (next door to 4169 where Hilton Lived)
                           Chamblee, Georgia 30341

                   Reported by Jackie L. Gunther, CCR B906

                                    * * *

                              GUNTHER REPORTING
                         CERTIFIED COURT REPORTING
                           4010 ROSWELL ROAD #8
                            POST OFFICE BOX 240275
                          ATLANTA, GEORGIA 30342
                              (404) 847-9217


         1         I N D E X   T O   E X A M I N A T I O N

         2  EXAMINATION                                     PAGE

         3  Examination by Ms. Tabor  . . . . . . . . . . .    4

         4                          * * *

         5            I N D E X   T O   E X H I B I T S

         6  EXHIBITS            (DESCRIPTION)               PAGE

         7  P-1    (Insulated Wall Systems Business Card)     21

         8  P-2       (Insulated Wall Systems Contract)       25

         9  P-3        (12/20/04 Letter to Mr. Tabor)         40

        10  P-4         (1/3/05 Letter to Mr. Tabor)          52

        11  P-5        (1/14/05 Letter to Mr. Tabor)          53

        12  P-6          (Copy of Business Cards)             68

        13  P-7 (9/12/05 E-Mail to Atlanta Home Technologies) 69

        14  P-8      (9/12/05 E-Mail to Border Magic)         70

        15  P-9    (9/12/05 E-Mail to TCS Construction)       71

        16  P-10      (9/12/05 E-Mail to HardScapes)          72

        17  P-11    (9/12/05 E-Mail to SD&B Services)         72

        18  P-12 (9/12/05 E-Mail to Sequoyah Vinyl Creations) 73

        19  P-13  (9/12/05 E-Mail to Weldon Home Exteriors)   82

        20  P-14             (Quote from Sears)               84

        21  P-15 (Quote from Renovation Premium Vinyl Windows)85

        22  P-16    (Proposal from RJD Exterior Designers)    85

        23  P-17      (Office of Consumer Affairs Letter)     92

        24  P-18         (Better Business Complaint)          93

        25  P-19     (Gooch Consultants Building Report)      96

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       (In compliance with OCGA 9-11-28(d) and 15-14-37
            (a) and (b), the court reporter disclosed that she
         2  was there on behalf of Gunther Reporting.  The court
            reporter further disclosed that she was retained by
         3  Jana B. Tabor, Esq., to take down the proceedings,
            for which the standard and customary rates will be
         4  charged.)

         5                          * * *



         8       JANA B. TABOR, ESQ.
                 450 Arborshade Trace
         9       Duluth, Georgia 30097
                 (770) 814-8134
                 Also Present: John Tabor (in part)


        13       Pro Se

        14                          * * *

        15       (It was stipulated and agreed by and between
            counsel for the respective parties and the witness
        16  that the signature of the witness to the deposition
            be reserved.)
        17                          * * *

        18            MS. TABOR:  This will be the deposition of

        19       Ron McKinney.  It's taken pursuant to notice.

        20       It's taken for purposes of discovery and all

        21       other purposes as provided by the Georgia Civil

        22       Practice Act.  Let the record reflect that at

        23       this time I am reserving all objections with the

        24       exception of the form of the question or the

        25       responsiveness of the answer until time of trial

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       or other first use of the deposition.  Let the

         2       record also reflect that Mr. McKinney is acting

         3       as his own attorney and he is pro se in this

         4       proceeding.

         5            If you will swear the witness, please.


         7            MS. TABOR:  No.

         8                      RON MCKINNEY,

         9        being first duly sworn, was deposed and

        10        testified as follows:

        11                       EXAMINATION

        12  BY MS. TABOR:

        13       Q    Let me ask you a question: have you ever

        14  given a deposition before?

        15       A    No.

        16       Q    All right.  I just want to tell you a

        17  couple things about how these things work.  First of

        18  all, as you can tell, the court reporter is taking

        19  down every word that we say.  Therefore, it's very

        20  important, first of all, not to talk over one

        21  another.  So if you would, let me finish my question

        22  before you respond; and I will try to do the same for

        23  you.  When you are making a response, I'll try not to

        24  talk over you.

        25            If there is anything that I ask you and you

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  are uncertain about what I'm asking you or I'm not

         2  making myself clear, and that can happen, if you

         3  would, just let me know; and I'll try my best to

         4  rephrase it in a way that you are comfortable with

         5  the question.  Okay?

         6       A    Fair enough.

         7       Q    All right.  Another housekeeping rule is

         8  that it's difficult for her to take down uh-huh and

         9  unh-unh.  So if you could try to remember, and

        10  everybody forgets, if your answer is going to be yes

        11  or no, to use a word like that instead of uh-huh or

        12  unh-unh, which we all do when we are having normal

        13  conversation.  Okay?

        14       A    Uh-huh.

        15       Q    Yes?

        16       A    Yes.

        17       Q    Will you state your full name for the

        18  record, please?

        19       A    Ronald Wayne McKinney.

        20       Q    And, Mr. McKinney, tell me your present

        21  address.

        22       A    4083 Red, as in color, Laurel Way.  That's

        23  in Snellville, Georgia 30039.

        24       Q    And how long have you lived at that

        25  address?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    Since 1987.

         2       Q    Okay.  Who lives there with you at the

         3  present time?

         4       A    My wife and mother.

         5       Q    What is your mother's name?

         6       A    Lois, L-o-i-s, L. McKinney.

         7       Q    And what is your wife's name?

         8       A    Robyn, R-o-b-y-n, McKinney.

         9       Q    And these individuals, did they live there

        10  at the time of the work that was performed by the

        11  Plaintiff which is the subject matter of this case?

        12       A    Yes, ma'am.

        13       Q    Okay.  Did anybody else live there at that

        14  time?

        15       A    No, ma'am.

        16       Q    Okay.  And you said you've lived there

        17  since 1987?

        18       A    That's correct.

        19       Q    Are you originally from the Atlanta area?

        20       A    No.

        21       Q    Where are you originally from?

        22       A    Everywhere.  My father was in the air

        23  force.

        24       Q    Okay.  All right.  How long have you lived

        25  in the Atlanta area?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    Since 1981.

         2       Q    Okay.  All right.  And do you have any

         3  children?

         4       A    I have -- I have three.

         5       Q    Do any of them live in Gwinnett County?

         6       A    I had three.  I'll put it that way.

         7       Q    All right.  Do any of your children live in

         8  Gwinnett County?

         9       A    No.

        10       Q    Do you have any relatives other than your

        11  mother and your wife who live in Gwinnett County?

        12       A    No.

        13       Q    I asked you earlier had you ever given a

        14  deposition before, and you said no; is that correct?

        15       A    That's correct.

        16       Q    Have you ever been involved in any other

        17  lawsuits before?

        18       A    No.

        19       Q    All right.  I believe somewhere I saw that

        20  you are a retired electrical engineer; is that

        21  correct?

        22       A    That's correct.

        23       Q    All right.  Can you tell me a little bit

        24  about your educational background, how far you went

        25  in school and what degrees you've --

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    That would be a double E from Auburn

         2  University.

         3       Q    And when did you obtain that degree?

         4       A    1978.

         5       Q    Do you have any other degrees?

         6       A    No.

         7       Q    Are you retired at this time?

         8       A    I'm a full-time caregiver for my mother.

         9       Q    So you do not work outside the home?

        10       A    No, ma'am.

        11       Q    When is the last time that you worked

        12  outside the home?

        13       A    1994.

        14       Q    And your wife, did she work outside the

        15  home either?

        16       A    No.

        17       Q    Do you have any business that you conduct

        18  out of your home?

        19       A    No.

        20       Q    When you say full-time caregiver, that's

        21  for your mother?

        22       A    That's correct.

        23       Q    All right.  Tell me a little about what

        24  kind of work you did historically as an electrical

        25  engineer.  What kind of work did you do?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    I'm a hardware designer.

         2       Q    Just explain to me a little bit about what

         3  that is.

         4       A    Everything that's inside that little box

         5  right there.

         6       Q    You are indicating the computer?

         7       A    That's correct.

         8       Q    Did you work on computers?  Is that the

         9  type of machinery you worked on?

        10       A    Yes, ma'am.

        11       Q    What is the last company that you worked

        12  for?

        13       A    A company called Tel-Data Computer Systems

        14  here in Atlanta.

        15       Q    What was your position there?

        16       A    Chief engineer.

        17       Q    And how long did you work there?

        18       A    Eight years.

        19       Q    All right.  Prior to the work that was

        20  performed on the home by the Plaintiff, have you ever

        21  had any opportunity in the past to be involved in any

        22  sort of construction or rehab on your home?

        23       A    No.

        24       Q    Have you ever had any opportunity to be

        25  involved in any --

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    First of all, it's not my home.

         2       Q    Okay.  All right.  Well, why don't you tell

         3  me --

         4       A    It's my residence.

         5       Q    All right.  What's the difference?

         6       A    Well, one, somebody owns it; and the other

         7  one, they don't.

         8       Q    Okay.  Do you own your residence?

         9       A    No.

        10       Q    All right.  Who is the owner of that

        11  residence?

        12       A    It on public record.

        13       Q    Okay.  Well, who is the owner?

        14       A    It's 3-F Foundation.

        15       Q    3-F Foundation, tell me what that is.

        16       A    You'll have to check with them on that.

        17       Q    You don't know who owns your home?

        18       A    As far as inquiring into their business and

        19  who they are and all that stuff, I'm not authorized

        20  to speak about that.  You'll have to talk to them.

        21       Q    Did you ever at any time hold the deed to

        22  your home?

        23       A    No.

        24       Q    All right.  And so that deed has been held

        25  by 3-F Corporation since 1987?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    It's 1997 I believe.  It's public record.

         2  Whatever the record says.  I can't remember.

         3       Q    All right.  But you said you've lived there

         4  since 1987?

         5       A    That's right.

         6       Q    And who owned the home from 1987 to 1997?

         7       A    I'm not real sure.

         8       Q    You are not sure who owns your home?

         9       A    I mean it's not my business.  Okay.

        10       Q    It's not your business to know who owns the

        11  residence you live in?

        12       A    What can I tell you?  I know one thing.  I

        13  know one thing, I don't own it.

        14       Q    You understand you are under oath?

        15       A    I understand I'm under oath, but I also

        16  understand that I don't have to answer questions that

        17  have to do with other people's business.

        18       Q    I'm not asking about other people's

        19  business.

        20       A    Well, actually you are.

        21       Q    I made a simple statement that it was your

        22  home.  You have injected into the record the fact

        23  that it's your residence that belongs to someone

        24  else.  You brought it up, and now I'm only trying to

        25  understand why you are trying to make that

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  distinction.

         2       A    Well, it's not something that I own.  It's

         3  my residence.  That's all I need to say about that.

         4       Q    All right.  How did you first become aware

         5  of a company called Insulated Wall Systems?

         6       A    A postcard.

         7       Q    And where did you get the postcard?

         8       A    Through the mail.

         9       Q    When you got the postcard what, if anything

        10  did you do?

        11       A    If you'll notice on the copy, there's a day

        12  and a time, Thursday at 6:30 I believe it is.  Is

        13  that what it says?

        14       Q    Okay.

        15       A    And I called the number that was on there.

        16       Q    And so I assume you made an appointment?

        17       A    That's correct.  I think I talked to a Mack

        18  Hilton originally, and he said Mr. Tabor here would

        19  call me back.

        20       Q    Okay.  At the time you made that call after

        21  getting that postcard, tell me what kind of work you

        22  were looking to have done.

        23       A    Siding, windows, a deck, and a slab.

        24       Q    Prior to making that phone call to

        25  Insulated Wall Systems, had you talked to anybody

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  else about doing that type of work on your home?

         2       A    Yes, ma'am.

         3       Q    All right.  Had anybody come out and given

         4  you any estimates?

         5       A    Yes, ma'am.

         6       Q    Okay.  All right.  Do you remember the

         7  names of any of those folks who had done that?

         8       A    The individuals?

         9       Q    Or the companies.

        10       A    Home Depot.

        11       Q    Okay.

        12       A    Sears, RJD.  It's called -- well, I guess

        13  it's RJD Siding I guess.  It's out there in Conyers.

        14       Q    All right.

        15       A    And Mr. Tabor.

        16       Q    Okay.  And the other three companies that

        17  you named, was that relatively in the same time

        18  period?

        19       A    Yes, ma'am.  It was within four or five

        20  days.

        21       Q    All right.  And when was this when you got

        22  this?  I should ask you when you got this postcard.

        23  Do you remember what year or what time of year it

        24  was?

        25       A    July 2004.  The contract was signed

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  August 23rd.  It was July -- I think the end of July,

         2  somewhere around that.

         3       Q    So the summertime 2004?

         4       A    Yes, ma'am.

         5       Q    All right, sir.  After somebody came out on

         6  behalf of Insulated Wall Systems, did you have

         7  anybody else come out to give you an estimate at that

         8  time?

         9       A    I don't understand the question.

        10       Q    Okay.  You told me you had three companies

        11  that had already visited you to give you an estimate

        12  about some work, and then you called Insulated Wall

        13  Systems and somebody came out.  I'm just asking:

        14  after an Insulated Wall Systems representative came

        15  out, did you have anybody else come out?

        16       A    No, he was the last one, if that's what you

        17  are asking.

        18       Q    Yes, that's what I'm asking.

        19            All right.  So was it Mr. Tabor who came to

        20  see you?

        21       A    Yes, ma'am.

        22       Q    All right.  And that meeting was in your

        23  home?

        24       A    Yes, ma'am.

        25       Q    Your residence I should say.  Okay.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    I mean home doesn't imply ownership.

         2       Q    All right.  Who was present when Mr. Tabor

         3  came to see you that first time?

         4       A    Me and Robyn and Mr. Tabor and my mother. (DOOR SOUND, JOHN TABOR ENTERED OR LEFT,  HARASSING ROBYN AGAIN)

         5       Q    Your mom was there too?

         6       A    She wasn't at the table listening.  She's

         7  94-years-old.  She requires constant care; and that's

         8  part of what I object to here, is having to be away

         9  from her during this time.  I'm shocked that you

        10  would not understand that, but apparently civil

        11  procedure trumps civil behavior.

        12       Q    I move to strike the last colloquy from the

        13  record.  It's nonresponsive.

        14       A    I can reserve the right to read this

        15  transcript; is that correct?

        16       Q    Okay.  I'm glad you brought that up.

        17  Mr. McKinney, you do, as any witness.  Let me go

        18  ahead and tell you I cannot advise you legally, but I

        19  can tell you this: that as you can see, the court

        20  reporter takes down every word that is said here.

        21       A    That's correct.

        22       Q    Okay.  You have the opportunity once she

        23  transcribes that into written form to go ahead and

        24  what we call read the document and sign it.

        25       A    I also can make changes on it?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    You cannot change the testimony, but you  (BUT SOMEONE CAN AND DID)

         2  can look at the transcript to assure that she has not

         3  made an error in the way that it was transcribed.

         4       A    Okay.  My understanding is that I can

         5  clarify the answers as well.

         6       Q    If you feel there needs to be a

         7  clarification, you have an addenda; and you can do

         8  that.

         9       A    Okay.

        10       Q    Okay.  And we'll just go ahead and take

        11  care of that.  I'm assuming at this time you're going

        12  to reserve the right to read and sign.  Is that what

        13  you are saying?

        14       A    Yes, ma'am.  In fact, I reserve all my

        15  rights.  I don't waive any objections or anything

        16  else.

        17       Q    All right.

        18       A    And although I'm not even sure which ones

        19  I'm not supposed to waive, but I'll make a blanket

        20  waiver of all objections.

        21       Q    All right.

        22       A    I will make a -- I'll take that back.  I

        23  will not waive any objections whatsoever.

        24       Q    Okay.  At the first meeting you had with

        25  Mr. Tabor, just tell me what you basically remember

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  about it, if you remember anything.

         2       A    Well, let me set the stage I guess is

         3  probably the best way.  Robyn, my wife, has worked

         4  for Home Depot for five years.  Not now, but she had.

         5  She was a kitchen designer.  She designs kitchens for

         6  people, high-end kitchens.  She works with

         7  installers.  She knows the business.  She knows the

         8  work, that kind of work.  She was in charge of the

         9  work, and she was also in charge of deciding what she

        10  wanted for the house.

        11            My role in the work is kind of a step-back

        12  role.  In fact, I read an article the other day that

        13  says 60 percent of all married couples, the wife

        14  handles the work.

        15       Q    Okay.

        16       A    So it was most appropriate for her to

        17  handle it so she gets what she wants.  It was also

        18  most appropriate for her to deal with the work,

        19  because she was experienced in dealing with

        20  contractors and dealing with installers and that sort

        21  of thing.  So I let her lead the show.  Basically it

        22  started with, you know, the salesman.  We told him we (ARE GENERALLY SIMILAR)

        23  wanted siding and windows.  I don't think the slab

        24  was mentioned at that point in time, but we did

        25  mention the deck.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    Okay.

         2       A    And he told us, Mr. Tabor, presented us

         3  with a brochure of a Series 60 window.  Argon gas was

         4  the standard.  You know, I can't remember all the

         5  little details.  Argon gas, low heat.  We wanted the

         6  energy star rating, replacement windows, new siding.

         7  He went through the different areas of siding.  Let's

         8  see what else.

         9            Oh, yeah.  We went outside.  We went

        10  through the whole deck and how it was going to be,

        11  you know, where she wanted it, the size and the

        12  stairs, you know, that sort of thing; and that was

        13  pretty much it for that first meeting.

        14       Q    So you think that they didn't really talk

        15  about the slab?

        16       A    No, ma'am.

        17       Q    Okay.

        18       A    The slab was brought up on the second

        19  meeting.

        20       Q    Okay.  Let me ask you this just so --

        21  obviously I wasn't there.  You had a deck on your

        22  house already; is that correct?

        23       A    That's correct.

        24       Q    All right.  It just needed to be replaced?

        25       A    That's correct.  Well, it was more than

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  that that was wanted.

         2       Q    I know.  Just that's, that's what I'm

         3  asking.  Let me ask you this: when you got the home

         4  in 1987, was it new?

         5       A    No.

         6       Q    Was that deck that you were looking to

         7  replace, was that on the home in 1987?

         8       A    Yes, ma'am.

         9       Q    All right.  Was there any slab, patio-type

        10  thing out there already?

        11       A    No, ma'am.

        12       Q    All right.  You said at the first meeting

        13  you had a discussion about wanting argon gas and

        14  energy ratings and all.  Had you done any sort of

        15  research, we'll call it, into the type of replacement

        16  windows you wanted prior?

        17       A    That's when we started to research, maybe

        18  about a week prior.  We had looked at the windows

        19  that the other people had brought out.  I went on

        20  line and looked on argon gas.  I looked at low heat (LOW-E)

        21  and energy star rating and how that would improve the

        22  dogs barking.  That was the big thing.  The dogs

        23  barking, soundproofing, energy savings, you know, all

        24  these things.

        25       Q    All right.  At the first meeting you didn't

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  reach any agreement about doing the work, did you?

         2       A    No, ma'am.

         3       Q    All right.  At the first meeting was there

         4  any discussion on the part of Mr. Tabor as to cost?

         5       A    I believe there was, if you'll flip the

         6  card right there.

         7       Q    Okay.  Let me go ahead -- I've got several

         8  documents I would like to go through here today; and

         9  just because you have never done this, let me tell

        10  you how this is going to work.  I'm going to have a

        11  copy and you're going to have a copy.  I'm going to

        12  hand a copy to the court reporter and have her mark

        13  it as an exhibit, and then you will have an

        14  opportunity to look at the documents as much as you

        15  want and tell me when you are ready, and then we'll

        16  talk about --

        17       A    Do you have the originals?  I mean I don't

        18  know if these have been altered or not.

        19       Q    Well, let's see.  No, we don't have the

        20  originals, because as you can tell --

        21       A    I've got the originals on that.  Okay.

        22       Q    Okay.  All right.  And if at any time you

        23  see something that you think something is different

        24  about it, please let me know; but I believe most of

        25  these documents came from you.  All right.  Let me go

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  ahead and have her mark what I'm going to call

         2  Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 1.

         3                      (Whereupon the document was
                                marked for identification as
         4                      Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 1.)

         5                      (Mr. Tabor is no longer present  
                                at the deposition.)  

         7  BY MS. TABOR:

         8       Q    All right.  I'm going to give you an

         9  opportunity to look at that.  When you're ready, tell

        10  me and we'll talk about it.

        11       A    Okay.  Let me say this right up front, that

        12  this has been a combined effort between me and my

        13  wife.

        14       Q    Okay.

        15       A    Okay.  And there are certain aspects she

        16  handled more, more of the pricing, more of the work.

        17  Things that I directly testify to is the only things

        18  that I want to testify to.

        19       Q    Well, exactly.  That's what we want to do.

        20       A    However, I will testify to things that she

        21  told me, not necessarily what somebody else says.  I

        22  understand they call that hearsay or something like

        23  that.

        24       Q    Well, let me just tell you --

        25       A    But I can testify to what she has said too.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    In this proceeding you can testify to what

         2  you know, whatever source you know it from, who told

         3  you, whatever; but you don't have to worry about the

         4  rules of this concerning hearsay.  All right?

         5       A    Okay.

         6       Q    I'm looking for what you know and --

         7       A    That's fair.

         8       Q    -- the emphasis is on you; and to the

         9  extent you feel that there is something about this

        10  project that your wife knows about, please let me

        11  know so that when we have an opportunity to talk to

        12  her, we'll make sure we go over those areas with her.

        13       A    There was another area, and let me just

        14  state this.

        15       Q    Okay.

        16       A    The time frame between June of last year

        17  and November/December time frame where I was out of

        18  it, literally.

        19       Q    Okay.  Well, when we get to that point,

        20  we're going to try to go chronologically.  You can

        21  let me know about that.  All right?

        22       A    Uh-huh (affirmative).

        23       Q    All right.  Now, can you tell us, sir, what

        24  is this document that we have now identified for the

        25  record as Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 1?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    This is Mr. Tabor's business card.

         2       Q    All right.  And are there some markings on

         3  that card?

         4       A    Yes, ma'am.  I believe it's his writing.

         5       Q    Okay.

         6       A    The original thing that we did was the

         7  siding, windows, deck, and gutters.  Yes, and that's

         8  the 14 -- whatever adds up to 14,850.  That was the

         9  original price.

        10       Q    All right.  Now, let me ask you this, and

        11  this is really not a major point; but you told me you

        12  didn't talk about the slab the first time.  So do you

        13  think you guys -- and it talks about a slab on this

        14  card.  Do you think you got this card in your first

        15  meeting or the second meeting?

        16       A    My recollection is that the 14,850, and

        17  this list was done on the first or maybe the second

        18  meeting, because I'm pretty sure he didn't give these

        19  prices on the first meeting.

        20       Q    Okay.  Well, let me just tell you this.

        21       A    There were three meetings; and, you know,

        22  the problem with memory is that it all rolled

        23  together and which occurred on which meeting, and,

        24  you know, it's difficult to say.  Either way, he

        25  wrote the initial items which added up to 14,850.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    Okay.  Well, that's fine.  Let me ask you

         2  this.

         3       A    And then at a later meeting the slab and

         4  the 5 x 5 deck was added.

         5       Q    Okay.  Well, let me ask you a question with

         6  regard to this exhibit.  The numbers that you see

         7  beside the individual areas of work, are those the

         8  numbers that you understand came to be attached as a

         9  value with regard to the sales price to that

        10  particular area of work; in other words, the siding

        11  was going to be $7,000.  The windows were going to be

        12  $3900?

        13       A    Yes, ma'am.

        14       Q    Okay.  All right.

        15       A    Yeah.  We had him specifically break it

        16  out.

        17       Q    Okay.  All right.  And as far as you are

        18  concerned, the numbers that are on the card here are

        19  the numbers that add up to 14,850?

        20       A    Well, no.  You need to understand.

        21       Q    That's 14,850, and then you added the slab?

        22       A    Right.

        23       Q    Okay.  So we end up with --

        24       A    The slab and the small deck I believe.

        25       Q    Okay.  That's on the front of the house?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  Is that what that is?

         2       A    Yes.  That's the 5 x 5 deck on the front of

         3  the house.

         4       Q    Okay.  All right.  So ultimately the

         5  price --

         6       A    That was for my mother.

         7       Q    -- was 16,000; is that correct?

         8       A    The original price was $16,850.

         9       Q    Okay.  All right.  Well, probably the best

        10  thing for right now is to go ahead and mark that as

        11  Plaintiff's 2.

        12       A    Do I give you this back?

        13       Q    Yeah, if you will.  We'll make a pile over

        14  here.  That goes to the court reporter.

        15                      (Whereupon the document was
                                marked for identification as
        16                      Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 2.)

        17  BY MS. TABOR:

        18       Q    Are you ready?

        19       A    I'm waiting on you.

        20       Q    Oh, okay.  I'm sorry.  All right.  Let me

        21  ask you what the document you've been handed

        22  identified as Plaintiff's Exhibit 2, can you tell me

        23  what that document is?

        24       A    Do you have the original?  There is

        25  something different about this one.  I can tell you

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  that right now.  Oh.  That's it.  It didn't copy.

         2  Okay.  I'm going to hand you this one back and look

         3  at this one.  Insulated Wall Systems, Incorporated,

         4  is gone from it.

         5       Q    Okay.  Other than the fact that the top of

         6  the page --

         7       A    Didn't get copied.

         8       Q    With regard to the body of the document

         9  itself, and maybe what you should do, because I'm not

        10  going to put the original one attached to your

        11  deposition, can you look at this and see if that's a

        12  copy, other than I realize that that has not copied

        13  on the top.  Is that the same document?

        14       A    I'm going to object to it, because I would

        15  have to study everything; and with that gone, I'm not

        16  sure.  I mean it appears to me as if it is.

        17       Q    Okay.  It appears to you.  All right.

        18       A    Okay.  But I will withhold judgment if it

        19  comes back to haunt me.

        20       Q    All right.  So subject to that, what has

        21  been identified as Plaintiff's Exhibit 2, can you

        22  tell me what that document is?

        23       A    Excuse me?

        24       Q    Can you tell me what you've got in front of

        25  you there?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    I believe this is the contract.

         2       Q    That's the contract between Insulated Wall

         3  Systems and you; is that correct?

         4       A    That's correct.

         5       Q    Okay.  And Plaintiff's Exhibit 2, you

         6  signed that document, correct?

         7       A    That is my signature.

         8       Q    Is it fair to say that that document

         9  outlines all of the work that was performed by the

        10  Plaintiff on your residence?

        11       A    I will answer it this way: it outlines that

        12  work which was to be done.

        13       Q    Okay.

        14       A    It does not outline the work that was

        15  actually done.

        16       Q    Okay.  All right.  Let me ask you this: in

        17  your initial conversations with Mr. Tabor, was there

        18  any discussion about who -- well, strike that.

        19            Did Mr. Tabor indicate to you that he

        20  generally was not in the business of building decks?

        21       A    No, ma'am.

        22       Q    Did he ever tell you he was not in the

        23  business of putting in slabs?

        24       A    No, ma'am.

        25       Q    All right.  Were there any discussions with

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  Mr. Tabor in those initial meetings about trying to

         2  keep the cost low on those --

         3       A    No, ma'am.

         4       Q    All right.  Let me finish the question --

         5  those two facets of work?

         6       A    No, ma'am.  There was never any discussion

         7  like that.

         8       Q    Okay.

         9       A    He was free to, and they were all given the

        10  freedom, to give me your quote.

        11       Q    Okay.

        12       A    No.  In fact, there was the opposite.

        13  There was a professionalism.  I can do this.  I've

        14  done this for what?  13 years I think at the time.

        15       Q    Okay.  I just want to clarify a point.  The

        16  other folks that had come out to see prior to that,  (I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY)

        17  Home Depot and Sears and I think you said RJD, did

        18  you have discussions with them about the windows too?

        19  Were they looking to put in windows for you?

        20       A    Yes, ma'am.

        21       Q    All right.  And did Mr. Tabor ever show you

        22  a model of the window prior to the work being done?

        23       A    Yes, ma'am.  He initially brought in a

        24  Series 60 window.

        25       Q    Did you have any discussions with him at

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  all about the Series 40 window?

         2       A    That was later on.

         3       Q    Okay.  All right.  So let me ask you this:

         4  You said you thought you had three meetings with him

         5  prior to work starting I guess?  I'm trying to

         6  understand.

         7       A    Yeah.  The second meeting I think he came

         8  back to do some measurements and give us the price.

         9       Q    Okay.

        10       A    And that's when we were outside looking at

        11  the various things that were to be done, and that's

        12  when I brought up the slab.

        13       Q    Okay.  And what, if any, discussion do you

        14  recall having with him about the slab?

        15       A    I told him -- well, we both told him.

        16  Robyn and I told him we wanted a slab back here.  We

        17  wanted it this wide and this far out from the house,

        18  and we definitely told him the function.

        19       Q    What was that function?

        20       A    A screen porch with a Jacuzzi on it.

        21       Q    Okay.  Fine.  The third time he came prior

        22  to work, what happened basically at that meeting?

        23       A    Prior to that he called us and told us, or

        24  told Robyn and she came to me and told me, that there

        25  had been some change in the window, that the Series

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  40 had been upgraded and was replacing the Series 60;

         2  and that sounded like bait and switch.  I didn't

         3  know, but that's what it sounded like; and then it

         4  was, Well, what do we do with this?

         5            So what we decided was for him to bring a

         6  window.  Let us look at it.  So he brought that

         7  window.  Sure enough, some of the features of the

         8  Series 60 it had; in other words, I think one of them

         9  was the handle, you know, that you lift up on the

        10  window.  On the Series 60 it was down below.  On the

        11  Series 40 brochure that we had, I think it was up

        12  there.  Now, don't quote me on this.  I can't

        13  remember exactly what the feature differences were.

        14       Q    You're talking about like something you

        15  would put your hand up under to lift the window up?

        16       A    Yes, ma'am.

        17       Q    Okay.  So you think he came back and first

        18  he showed you the 60 window; and now he's come back

        19  and he's shown you a 40 model?

        20       A    Well, he said the 40 had been upgraded and

        21  changed.

        22       Q    All right.  And how had the upgrade

        23  changed?

        24       A    In the sense that the 40 was replacing the

        25  60.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    So now --

         2       A    Now the 60 was going to go away.

         3       Q    The 60 was going to go away and the 40 was

         4  going to replace it.  Okay.  You had seen the 60?

         5       A    Yes, ma'am.

         6       Q    And now you are telling me visually you

         7  noticed at least one difference in the 40?

         8       A    Yeah.  My wife was involved with it a lot

         9  more.  So she noticed a few other features.

        10       Q    All right.

        11       A    But what I heard him indicate was that the

        12  internal features had changed and been upgraded to

        13  the Series 60 and they were just going to have two

        14  sets of windows, the 40 and the 80 if I understand

        15  correctly.

        16       Q    All right.  And this is after you had

        17  gotten the quote of 3900 for the windows?

        18       A    Yes, ma'am.

        19       Q    All right.  Was there --

        20       A    Now, wait a minute.  Let's see.

        21       Q    According to the card that's been marked

        22  Plaintiff's Exhibit 1?

        23       A    Okay.  It was 3900.  We actually added a

        24  window, which brought it up -- yeah, there's

        25  something missing here from the original.  Yes.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    All right.  As you can see from what you

         2  produced to me, I don't have this card.  This is all

         3  I have.

         4       A    I'd have to double-check that.

         5       Q    Okay.

         6       A    But what we did is added another window,

         7  the thirteenth window, which brought it up to 4250,

         8  $350 more for that additional window.

         9       Q    So when he came back with the second set of

        10  windows, was there anything special about any -- my

        11  question was really was there going to be any price

        12  change?

        13       A    No.  It was 4250.

        14       Q    Okay.

        15       A    If -- and we asked him this carte blanche, (POINT BLANK)

        16  you know, is this the same window as the Series 60?

        17            Yes, sir, it is.  Yes, ma'am, it is.

        18       Q    All right.  And this third meeting you are

        19  talking about your wife was there too, correct?

        20       A    Yes, ma'am.

        21       Q    All right.

        22       A    There was the meeting that we signed the

        23  contract.

        24       Q    Okay.  That was going to be my next

        25  question.  Other than the presentation of this new

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  Series 40 window, was there anything else done?  You

         2  are saying that's the day that he signed the

         3  contract; is that correct?

         4       A    August 23rd is the date on the contract I

         5  believe.  The 23rd of August, yes, ma'am.

         6       Q    And that contract, if you'll look on page

         7  one, I think in the handwritten part you would agree

         8  that it indicates that you are going to get the model

         9  40 vinyl replacement windows; is that correct?

        10       A    Yes, ma'am.  He'd said already though that (WITH THE SETUP)

        11  it would have the same features as the Series 60.

        12  There was no doubt about that.  We were believing him

        13  on what he said.

        14       Q    Okay.  But the contract itself is for the

        15  model 40?

        16       A    I understand that.

        17       Q    All right.  That's all I'm trying to -- I'm

        18  just trying to make sure we are in agreement for

        19  that.

        20            And there's 13 windows indicated that were

        21  installed, correct?

        22       A    Installed incorrectly, but yes.

        23       Q    Okay.  All right.

        24       A    Or to be installed.

        25       Q    Move to strike to the extent it's not

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  responsive.

         2            There's 13 windows to be installed?

         3       A    To be installed, that's correct.

         4       Q    All right.  Okay.  Still on page one in the

         5  handwritten part down in the last little paragraph

         6  there it says, All windows white with half screens

         7  and grids on front windows only with low-e glazing

         8  and argon gas.  No work to inside walls on windows

         9  that are being reframed.

        10            Would you agree with me that the contract

        11  specifically states that to the extent there's any

        12  work to be done inside the home with regard to the

        13  installation of these windows, that Insulated Wall

        14  Systems will not be doing that?

        15       A    That's not what we were told.

        16       Q    Okay.  That's not my question.

        17       A    Okay.

        18       Q    My question is: would you agree with me

        19  that the contract itself says no work to inside walls

        20  on windows that are being reframed?

        21       A    In an attempt to be as responsive as I can,

        22  one must understand what we were told would be the

        23  way the inside Sheetrock would look, which was the

        24  smooth edges.  If you are asking me just simply what

        25  the contract says, yes, ma'am.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    That's exactly what I'm asking you.  I'm

         2  asking you what the contract says.

         3       A    Well, I think it's unfair to tell us to --

         4       Q    All right.  I move to strike as being

         5  nonresponsive.  I'm going to ask you one more time,

         6  sir.  Would you agree with me that the contract

         7  states no work to inside walls on windows that are

         8  being reframed?

         9       A    Yes, ma'am.

        10       Q    Okay.

        11       A    But I will lodge an objection to that,

        12  because it doesn't tell the whole story.  There's the

        13  contract, yes, ma'am.  I understand that, but there's

        14  also an agreement.

        15       Q    Sir, would you also agree with me that on

        16  the bottom of page one --

        17       A    Yes, ma'am, there was a verbal agreement.

        18  We are not talking about agreements.  We are talking

        19  about what I was told would happen.

        20       Q    Okay.  Page two of the contract, if you

        21  would, turn there, please.  The first paragraph it

        22  would appear to me to deal with the installation of

        23  the vinyl siding.  Would you agree with me?

        24       A    Install Royal woodland 16, yes, ma'am.

        25       Q    The work that was to be performed?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    To be performed, that's correct.

         2       Q    Okay.  The next issue on that page deals

         3  with the gutters, correct?

         4       A    Well, no, ma'am.  There's shutters, vinyl

         5  shutters.  It's the next one down, and then there is

         6  seamless aluminum gutters.

         7       Q    All right.  With regard to the vinyl

         8  siding, would you agree that 16 inch vinyl siding was

         9  installed over one quarter inch foam board?

        10       A    Yes, ma'am.

        11       Q    Would you agree that 5 inch seamless

        12  aluminum gutters and 3 x 4 downspouts were installed

        13  on the home?

        14       A    With both of these questions I would like

        15  for you to define the word install.

        16       Q    It takes on its common and ordinary

        17  meaning, but --

        18       A    Well, generally speaking, ma'am, install

        19  means properly installed, installed according to

        20  industry standards.  You know, obviously someone can

        21  slap it up.  Obviously someone can think about what

        22  they are doing.

        23       Q    All right.  Mr. McKinney, my question is:

        24  there are 5 inch seamless aluminum gutters and 3 x 4

        25  downspouts attached to your home?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    After three efforts, yes, ma'am.

         2       Q    Okay.  Going on down it says, Install

         3  Greenguard plastic housewrap over quarter inch foam

         4  insulating taped at seams.

         5            Was Greenguard plastic housewrap attached

         6  to your house?

         7       A    Would you -- I'm going to have to ask you

         8  to read the entire line, because it was not.

         9       Q    Sir, I ask the questions as I see fit.

        10  Now --

        11       A    Well, I object to that question because --

        12       Q    Well, you can object to the question,

        13  but --

        14       A    -- because the housewrap is there.  The

        15  seams are not taped.

        16       Q    Okay.  Well, all right.  That's fine.  But

        17  the housewrap is there?

        18       A    The seams are not taped.

        19       Q    Is there quarter inch foam board there?

        20       A    Yes, ma'am.

        21       Q    Okay.

        22       A    In a lot more places than it's supposed to

        23  be.

        24       Q    Okay.  The next paragraph says, Remove deck

        25  on back of house and dispose of.  Was that done?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    Yes, ma'am.

         2       Q    Okay.  Then rebuild new deck, approximate

         3  dimension of 10 foot floor joists and 20 foot wide

         4  with 3 foot x 3 foot platform for stairs -- I hate to

         5  make this a long question, but I guess I'm going to

         6  have to -- dropping halfway to second 3 foot x 3 foot

         7  platform, 2 inch x 2 inch pickets, and 4 inch x 4

         8  inch posts on corners and to steps.

         9            Okay.  Was that construction attached to

        10  your house?

        11       A    Loosely defined, yes, ma'am.

        12       Q    Okay.  The third page, Build wood deck

        13  approximately 5 foot wide by 5 foot deep from front

        14  door with one step and rails.

        15            Was that work attached to your house?

        16       A    No, ma'am, it's not actually attached to

        17  the house.

        18       Q    Okay.  Is it present by the front door?

        19       A    Yes, ma'am.

        20       Q    Okay.  Next it says, Pour slab on back of

        21  house approximately 14 feet deep, away from house,

        22  and approximately 19 feet wide, smooth finish,

        23  customer to remove shrubs first.

        24            Is there a slab now behind your house

        25  approximately 14 feet deep away from the house and

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  19 feet wide?

         2       A    And a smooth finish.

         3       Q    I didn't ask that question.

         4       A    Well, I'm not sure how you -- I must object

         5  because reading part of the question doesn't seem to

         6  be fair to me; but, yes, ma'am.  You have seen the

         7  concrete slab.  It's back there, but it definitely

         8  does not have a smooth surface.

         9       Q    Okay.  Now, with regard to the elements of

        10  construction that are supposed to be contained within

        11  this contract, you did not receive two pairs of vinyl

        12  shutters; is that correct?

        13       A    No.

        14       Q    Okay.  And I'm not talking about your

        15  belief as to the quality of work, but as to the

        16  actual items that were supposed to be installed on

        17  your home.  Other than those two pairs of shutters,

        18  what in this contract did you not receive other than

        19  that?

        20       A    Argon gas for the windows.

        21       Q    Okay.  Anything else?

        22       A    Seams taped, smooth finish, and the

        23  shutters.

        24       Q    How long after you signed this contract did

        25  someone come out to start the work?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    Let's see.  I think the windows arrived

         2  somewhere at the end of September, the last week in

         3  September.

         4       Q    Okay.  I'm going to mark this document as

         5  Plaintiff's Exhibit 3.

         6                      (Whereupon the document was
                                marked for identification as
         7                      Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 3.)

         8            THE WITNESS:  Now, this original you should

         9       have.

        10  BY MS. TABOR:

        11       Q    Take a look at the copy that I've given

        12  you.

        13       A    It appears as if this is one, but I will

        14  object because it isn't -- I know this isn't the

        15  original, but we can work off this.

        16       Q    Okay.  All right.

        17       A    With my noted objection.

        18       Q    At any time you see any document that you

        19  think does not reflect what you stated, let me know.

        20  All right?  I'm not here to try to trick you.  I'm

        21  just trying to get information.  All right?

        22       A    When your husband tells me to shut up,

        23  ma'am, I tell you, that is a little --

        24       Q    I cannot --

        25       A    -- that's a little bit much.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    I cannot control my husband.

         2       A    I understand that.

         3       Q    Okay.

         4       A    But it is a family affair.

         5       Q    I move to strike as nonresponsive.

         6            Okay.  Mr. McKinney, can you identify for

         7  me and the record what has now been marked as

         8  Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 3?

         9       A    It appears, and I'm not absolutely

        10  convinced, but it appears as if it's the letter I

        11  wrote to Mr. Tabor on December 20th, 2004.

        12       Q    And what prompted you to write this letter?

        13       A    The work was not completed.  The work had

        14  problems.

        15       Q    Would it be fair to say at the time you

        16  wrote the letter you expressed therein all of the

        17  problems that you saw with the work?

        18       A    I'm sorry?

        19       Q    Would it be fair to say that at the time

        20  you wrote this letter on December 20th, or it's dated

        21  December 20, 2004, to Mr. Tabor, that you expressed

        22  in that letter all of the problems as you saw them

        23  with the work?

        24       A    The letter expresses what I knew at the

        25  time.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    Okay.  All right.

         2       A    And I really can't say if it expressed

         3  everything that I knew.  We had just had an emotional

         4  moment there five days earlier.

         5       Q    Okay.  All right.  Well, we'll go back to

         6  that; but let me ask you a question.  In this second

         7  paragraph under the word slab there it says, The slab

         8  has been determined to have been poured on

         9  uncompacted soil by a qualified house inspector.  Who

        10  is that house inspector?

        11       A    Originally the person who came and looked

        12  at it was a friend of ours, and I think you have his

        13  name on our witness list.  James -- well, shoot.  I

        14  can't remember his last name now.  Crisp, James

        15  Crisp.

        16       Q    Crisp, C-r-i --

        17       A    C-r-i-s-p.

        18       Q    And this is a family friend?

        19       A    Yes, ma'am.

        20       Q    All right.  But he's also a home inspector?

        21       A    He's been a builder for 25, 30 years.

        22       Q    Okay.  So he's a builder; he's not an

        23  inspector?

        24       A    Well, he is an inspector now.

        25       Q    Okay.  All right.  Was he an inspector back

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  on December 20th, 2004?

         2       A    Yes, ma'am.

         3       Q    All right.  This is probably a good time to

         4  ask you since obviously I was not present at any of

         5  these transactions you had with the Plaintiff.  You

         6  said something had happened five days earlier on.

         7  I'm assuming approximately December 15th.  Can you

         8  tell me what you are referring to?

         9       A    Let's -- could we -- I know you want me to

        10  answer your question, but I think a setup is

        11  appropriate here to go back and look at what I was

        12  told what the contract says about the quality.

        13       Q    No, I want you to tell me what happened

        14  five days earlier.

        15       A    Okay.  Mr. Tabor appeared in my yard with a

        16  cellphone stuck in his ear.  That's what I remember.

        17       Q    Okay.  I'm sorry.  I don't want to

        18  interrupt you, but let me ask you this: five days

        19  earlier had the siding on the house been completed?

        20       A    It was on the house.

        21       Q    Okay.  What about the gutters?  Had they

        22  been put up on the house?

        23       A    I believe they were on the house.

        24       Q    What about the deck?

        25       A    Yes, ma'am.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    All right.  How about the front stoop we'll

         2  call it?

         3       A    Yes, ma'am.

         4       Q    How about the slab?

         5       A    Yes, ma'am.

         6       Q    Okay.  And the windows?

         7       A    Yes, ma'am.

         8       Q    Okay.  All right.  So what happened now?

         9  Go back and tell me.  You see Mr. Tabor in your yard

        10  five days later on December 15.

        11       A    And that was when we were supposed to have

        12  a walk-through --

        13       Q    All right.

        14       A    -- a walk-through to verify that everything

        15  was done according to the contract and per the

        16  contract.

        17       Q    Okay.

        18       A    He told me that -- well, this is earlier.

        19  This is why I wanted to go back, because I need to

        20  give you the proper setup as to why he was there,

        21  that, you know, I didn't have to pay until I'm

        22  satisfied that the work was completed in accordance

        23  with the contract.

        24       Q    Okay.

        25       A    He went on to say that there would be a

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  walk-through and that there would be a sign-off sheet

         2  and that we would list all the things that the

         3  contract called for; and if anything was not done, he

         4  would take care of it.  We would then go and look at

         5  the work, and any problems with the work he would

         6  fix.

         7       Q    Okay.

         8       A    Okay.  Fair enough.  We had -- I had asked

         9  Robyn -- we had already determined some things back

        10  in November, the end of November that there were some

        11  problems with, serious problems with the work,

        12  serious problems with both the deck, the slab.  The

        13  windows didn't have argon gas.  We had determined

        14  that.  No shutters obviously, and she had called him

        15  sometime at the end of November and told him that we

        16  had serious problems with the work; and we didn't

        17  hear anything from him for four to five days.  We (45 DAYS)

        18  didn't know what was going on.

        19       Q    Okay.  You just told me she called the end  (HOLD ON)

        20  of November, but --

        21       A    No.  I'm sorry.  The first of November.

        22       Q    Okay.  But he shows up on the 15th?

        23       A    The 15th, yes.  So it was about

        24  November 4th, 5th, somewhere in there.  I can't

        25  remember exactly, but anyway four or five days (45 DAYS)

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  passed.  We had no earthly idea what was going on.

         2  He appears.  I go outside and bring him back in, and

         3  he starts talking.  We asked him how he's doing.

         4  What is going on?

         5            And he starts talking about you, to say

         6  that you had had some sort of surgery; and we

         7  expressed our sympathies, you know, we told him we

         8  were real sorry about that; and, you know, would he

         9  like to do the walk-through.  Sure enough.

        10            Okay.  So we all go outside and we point to

        11  the slab and tell him basically what the home

        12  inspector tells me.  This is going to break.  I do

        13  remember him saying he had never heard of compact

        14  soil being -- and then I thought, oh, God.  Then we

        15  went over to the deck.

        16            Now, all this time Robyn is talking to him

        17  and discussing the problems.  I'm standing off.  And

        18  suddenly things got heated, you know, we talked about

        19  we've got this whole side of the deck is supported by

        20  16 nails that are nailed into rotten wood.  It had

        21  already been discussed by Mr. Payne and Mr. Tabor,

        22  that there was going to be support there.  Okay.

        23       Q    Okay.

        24       A    Now, whoever heard of nailing into rotten

        25  wood.  That's not going to hold anything.  He made

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  some smart aleck remark about why don't you just

         2  build brick columns or something.  (DOOR NOISE TABOR AGAIN)

         3            Well, sir, I didn't order brick columns.

         4  If I did, I think it would look most inappropriate

         5  here.  What we want is a good, solid deck.  I told

         6  him that I had the money to pay him; and that if we

         7  would fix these two things, which there was a

         8  solution to the slab, which would have required I

         9  think four holes, that we knew about at the time, and

        10  we had come up with a method in which to repair the

        11  deck, or at least that portion of it, not the entire

        12  deck but that portion of it; and he went ballistic.

        13  He said, and I quote -- this is burned in my brain --

        14  I don't have to put up with this bull shit, unquote.

        15       Q    All right.

        16       A    He ran off.  He said I'll see you in court.

        17       Q    Okay.

        18       A    And what in the world is going on here?

        19       Q    At that meeting was there any discussion

        20  about putting a post under the deck to support it?

        21       A    Yes, ma'am.  He wanted to put a post right

        22  in the middle of that and in a storage area that I

        23  had planned.

        24       Q    So he had offered at that time to do

        25  something to rectify your concern?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    Well, actually it was not a solution.

         2       Q    I didn't ask that, sir.  I said he offered

         3  to do something --

         4       A    Yes, ma'am.

         5       Q    All right.  Okay.  But you found that

         6  unacceptable?

         7       A    Well, the engineers found that unacceptable

         8  too.

         9       Q    I didn't ask that.  I move to strike.

        10            You found it unacceptable, correct?

        11       A    I didn't think it would work. (DOOR SOUND TABOR AGAIN)

        12       Q    Okay.  All right.  And did it have

        13  something to do with the fact that it would have some

        14  sort -- it would block an area that you used for

        15  storage?

        16       A    The primary problem -- I mean that as a

        17  layman and not a construction engineer -- that was my

        18  problem with it, the real problem is that it won't

        19  work.

        20       Q    All right.  At the time that the slab was

        21  poured did you try yourself to put some sort of drain

        22  in the slab when it was being poured?

        23       A    That was Keith's idea.

        24       Q    You are talking about Mr. Payne?

        25       A    Mr. Payne, yes, ma'am.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    All right.

         2       A    I mean the gutters came right down on the

         3  side of the slab.  What happens is that the water is

         4  going to pour out of the -- what do you call it --

         5  and then go down the side of the slab washing all the

         6  dirt out from under it.

         7       Q    Okay.

         8       A    He had to put it there.

         9       Q    Did he put it there, or did you put it

        10  there?

        11       A    I went and bought the little cap, and I

        12  bought the PVC on his suggestion that it be moved.

        13       Q    But when he came to pour it -- I'm just

        14  trying to understand.  Again, I wasn't there -- were

        15  you physically out there trying to put this drain in,

        16  or was that something Mr. Payne was out there doing?

        17       A    Oh, no.  He was doing all the installation.

        18       Q    Okay.  All right.  Prior to this

        19  walk-through on the 15th we'll call it, did you have

        20  any discussion with Mr. Tabor about the lack of argon

        21  gas?

        22       A    On the 15th?

        23       Q    Prior to that time.

        24       A    Yes.  Me personally?

        25       Q    Yes.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    No.

         2       Q    You didn't?

         3       A    No.  My wife did.

         4       Q    Okay.  All right.  I can ask her about

         5  that.

         6            At any time have you had any discussion

         7  with Mr. Tabor about any sort of masonry work being

         8  done around those two windows on the front of the

         9  house that are in the stone?

        10       A    The only thing he told us about the

        11  installation of the windows there was that the stone

        12  might drop off of the screen.  See, when they do the

        13  stone on there it's got the screen behind it, and the

        14  stone is plastered or mortared onto that screen.  He

        15  said that might fall off.

        16       Q    Okay.  But was there really any suggestion

        17  from him that his company or someone that he would

        18  contract with would come and do any sort of repair to

        19  the stone facade?

        20       A    He said that if the stone fell, he could

        21  not repair it; but he did say that the window would

        22  be finished if there were no stones that were broken

        23  off; and Jimmy, the window installer, said he could

        24  fix that.  He could solve that problem in minutes if

        25  he was told to do it, but he didn't.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    Okay.  Other than Mr. Crisp, who had come

         2  out and looked at the slab at the time of this letter

         3  that we've marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit 3?  Had you

         4  had anybody else come out and review the work that

         5  was done by the plaintiff?

         6       A    When?

         7       Q    When you wrote this letter, Plaintiff's

         8  Exhibit 3.  By that time had you --

         9       A    No, ma'am.  This was --

        10       Q    Just Mr. Crisp?

        11       A    Yes, ma'am.

        12       Q    And he only looked at the deck?  I mean --

        13  I'm sorry -- the slab?

        14       A    The slab and the deck.

        15       Q    All right.  So he talked to you --

        16       A    No, I take that back.  No.  I think he

        17  looked some at the window installation too and saw

        18  problems there.  I'm not sure if I mentioned them in

        19  here.  I know we had argon gas.  Yeah.  Yeah, he did,

        20  because I said it here, it's not properly installed.

        21  That was the installer.  Adam was his name.  He put

        22  two screws in that, which we couldn't understand why.

        23       Q    And there is one of the windows --

        24       A    But at that point, no, we had not discussed

        25  any other problems.  The problems in the work is a

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  learning experience obviously.

         2                      (Whereupon the document was
                                marked for identification as
         3                      Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 4.)

         4            THE WITNESS:  Once again, I object because

         5       it's not an original; but it does appear as if

         6       it's the letter I wrote to -- is there another

         7       one in here?  No, maybe not.

         8  BY MS. TABOR:

         9       Q    Can you identify subject to your objection

        10  what we've called Plaintiffs 4?

        11       A    Yes, ma'am, it does appear as if this is a

        12  letter that I wrote to Mr. Tabor.

        13       Q    Okay.  And it's dated January 3, 2005?

        14       A    Yes, ma'am.

        15       Q    I'm going to ask you two questions here:

        16  One, between the meeting there on the 15th when he

        17  came out to your house, Mr. Tabor, and the letter

        18  that you sent on the 20th, which -- or is dated the

        19  20th marked 3, did you have any conversations with

        20  Mr. Tabor during that time?

        21       A    No, ma'am.

        22       Q    Okay.  From the time you wrote the letter

        23  on the 20th of December until you wrote the letter on

        24  January 3rd that we have now marked Plaintiff's 4,

        25  did you have any contact with him?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    No, ma'am.

         2       Q    Okay.

         3       A    And after December 15th, you know, the ball

         4  was in his court.  I figured I was going to get a

         5  lawsuit here.

         6       Q    Okay.  All right.

         7                      (Whereupon the document was
                                marked for identification as
         8                      Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 5.)

         9            THE WITNESS:  Once again, I lodge an

        10       objection because this is not an original.

        11  BY MS. TABOR:

        12       Q    Mr. McKinney, you can have that standing

        13  objection if you would like, because none of these

        14  are originals.

        15       A    All right.

        16       Q    All right.  Take a moment to look at it and

        17  then can you tell me what the document marked as

        18  Plaintiff's Exhibit 5 is?

        19       A    It's a letter I wrote to Mr. Tabor on

        20  January 14 in response to a letter he sent me on

        21  January 4th, 2005, and it is a compilation of the

        22  three letters that I had planned on writing.

        23       Q    All right.  Paragraph number four says, The

        24  contract is very clear when it states no verbal

        25  agreements recognized.  So any

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  agreements/arrangements/deals we have/had outside the

         2  contract cannot be a part of any negotiation.

         3            Is it fair to say that's a sentence that

         4  you wrote?

         5       A    Yes, ma'am.

         6       Q    Okay.  Mr. McKinney, let me ask you: do you

         7  think that you as a citizen has the authority or the

         8  right to enforce building codes?

         9       A    I'm not trying to enforce building codes,

        10  but I am subject to the building codes, or the house

        11  is.

        12       Q    I move to strike as nonresponsive.

        13       A    And anyway, he said they were going to be

        14  built by the code, not me.

        15       Q    I move to strike as nonresponsive.

        16            Paragraph seven says, The siding is

        17  complete and in my opinion rates good?

        18       A    From what I knew at the time, yes.

        19       Q    Paragraph eight, The gutters are complete

        20  and in my opinion rates good.  Is that a fair

        21  statement?  That's what you said?

        22       A    Based on what I knew at the time, yes,

        23  ma'am.

        24       Q    And paragraph nine says, The front deck is

        25  complete and I will accept it as fair.  What's wrong

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  with the front deck?  What was wrong with it?  Why is

         2  it fair?

         3       A    It's shoddy work.

         4       Q    Why do you say shoddy?  What about that was

         5  bothering you back on January 14th?

         6       A    Well, the caps were done.

         7       Q    You mean the post caps?

         8       A    Uh-huh (affirmative).  It's almost fallen

         9  off.  I keep having to move it.  My understanding was

        10  it was going to be concrete there.

        11       Q    All right.

        12       A    You've got to put the concrete down there (WHAT ELSE DO YOU DO WITH DECKS)

        13  to hold the thing in place.

        14       Q    All right.  If we refer back to Plaintiff's

        15  Exhibit No. 2, page three, it says, Build wood deck

        16  approximately 5 feet wide x 5 feet deep from front

        17  door with one step and rails.  Is that your

        18  recollection of what the contract provided?

        19       A    Uh-huh (affirmative).

        20       Q    Is that a yes?

        21       A    Yes, ma'am.

        22       Q    All right.  And nowhere in there is there

        23  any mention of concrete; is that true?  Is that a

        24  fair statement?

        25       A    I object to that.  It's like selling a car.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    You can't object to that.  Mr. McKinney,

         2  answer the question.

         3       A    Well, it's leading and it's misleading;

         4  because it's like the contract selling a car and

         5  there are no wheels on it.  Is there anywhere in the

         6  contract where it says wheels?

         7       Q    I move to strike as nonresponsive.

         8            Now, I'll ask you the question again.  Does

         9  the contract itself at any time state that there

        10  would be any concrete associated with the

        11  construction of the --

        12       A    No, ma'am.

        13       Q    All right.

        14       A    Tack on the end, for crying out loud. (LIKE JACK ONEILL SAYS)

        15       Q    I move to strike as nonresponsive.

        16            All right.  Paragraph 10 --

        17       A    Not to mention -- can we --

        18       Q    No, we can't.

        19       A    Okay.

        20       Q    Paragraph 10 says, The back deck is not

        21  complete as it has insufficient support for the

        22  11-and-a-half or over half the length of the deck,

        23  just the first sentence.  My question regarding

        24  paragraph number 10 really resolves around the last

        25  sentence.  We had received a bid for this work that

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  comes to $320.

         2            Who gave you a bid for that work?

         3       A    You'll have to talk to my wife about that

         4  one.

         5       Q    Okay.  Did you ever have any discussion

         6  with Mr. Tabor about the concrete slab wherein he

         7  told you the concrete alone for that job cost him a

         8  thousand dollars?

         9       A    No, ma'am.

        10       Q    Did your wife ever tell you she had a

        11  conversation to this?

        12       A    No, ma'am.  That seems to be -- why would

        13  somebody tell me what the materials cost?

        14       Q    Move to strike.  Nonresponsive.

        15            Okay.  Mr. McKinney, you have made

        16  allegations in this lawsuit that at the time

        17  Mr. Tabor had discussions with you about argon gas in

        18  the windows that he full well knew, he knowingly told

        19  you something that was incorrect.  He defrauded you.

        20  He told you those windows had argon gas; and they, in

        21  fact, didn't come with argon gas.  Tell me what facts

        22  you have that support that Mr. Tabor knew at the time

        23  he made those statements about the argon gas, that

        24  when the windows came they would not have argon gas

        25  contrary to what he told you?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    You'll have to repeat the question, because

         2  I --

         3       Q    Okay.  All right.  You've made allegations

         4  in the lawsuit --

         5       A    Which allegations?

         6       Q    Well, you know, okay.  Mr. McKinney, you

         7  have stated time and time again that Mr. Tabor

         8  defrauded you when he told you that the windows would

         9  have argon gas; and then when they came, they didn't.

        10  And all I want to know is if that is your position,

        11  that at the time that Mr. Tabor told you those

        12  statements about the windows that he full well knew

        13  they weren't going to have argon gas in them, what

        14  facts support that?  How do you know Mr. Tabor was

        15  lying when he said those windows will have argon gas?

        16       A    He didn't order them.  It says so on the

        17  order sheet.  He has no place for argon gas on the

        18  order sheet.

        19       Q    Okay.  So if he doesn't have a place for

        20  argon gas on the order sheet, that is the only fact

        21  which supports your belief that he was defrauding you

        22  when he said it would come with argon gas?

        23       A    Well, I'll have to think about that for a

        24  while, if that's the only fact I have.  I don't know

        25  for sure if that's the only fact I have.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    Well, at this time the only one you can

         2  think of is there's no place to check on the order

         3  sheet?  Is that not what you just testified to?

         4       A    Yes, ma'am.

         5       Q    Okay.  Can you tell me who, if anyone --

         6  well, strike that.

         7            Has anyone ever told you that the warranty

         8  on those windows as installed is void?

         9       A    You'll have to talk to Robyn about the

        10  warranty issues.

        11       Q    All right.  But my question is: has anyone

        12  ever told you that?

        13       A    I believe.  Yes.  I'm pretty sure that the

        14  rep for -- let me -- let me be careful right here and

        15  make sure I really understand what you are asking.

        16  Has anyone told me that the warranty would be voided?

        17       Q    Due to the way they were installed.

        18       A    No, ma'am.

        19       Q    Okay.  All right.

        20       A    My wife, maybe she could answer.

        21       Q    Okay.  Fair enough.

        22            Paragraph 14 of the letter, referring back

        23  to Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 5, says, The masonry grout

        24  work for the windows in the stonework comes under

        25  the, quote, good work clause of the contract and we

                              GUNTHER REPORTING(door opens John Tabor is there)

         1  have a bid of $50.

         2            What do you mean by that statement?

         3            Do you want something to drink?

         4       A    I've got a diet Coke right here.  I would

         5  like to take a break if I could.

         6       Q    Okay.  Well, answer this question; and then

         7  we'll take a 10 minute break.

         8       A    Fair enough.  You'll have to talk to my

         9  wife about bids.

        10       Q    Okay.  All right.  Then it's not true as

        11  you testified earlier that the contract itself did

        12  not provide for any masonry work to be done by

        13  Insulated Wall Systems?

        14       A    Excuse me?

        15       Q    Did you not tell me earlier today that the

        16  contract did not provide that Insulated Wall Systems

        17  would do any masonry work?

        18       A    I don't think it does, does it?

        19       Q    That's what I'm saying.  Would you agree

        20  with me that the contract does not provide for

        21  masonry work?

        22       A    Yes, ma'am.

        23       Q    But in paragraph 14 here you are demanding

        24  that Insulated Wall Systems do something about it, or

        25  you're going to get --

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    No, ma'am, not masonry work.  This is not

         2  what we're asking for I don't think.  What we are

         3  asking for is that the window be finished off.

         4       Q    Okay.  It says, The masonry grout work for

         5  the windows and the stonework comes under the, quote,

         6  good work, close quote, clause?

         7       A    Because the windows are exposed.  Out in

         8  the wall envelope it's exposed to the atmosphere, to

         9  the environment.

        10       Q    All right.  Paragraph 14 dealing with,

        11  quote, masonry grout work --

        12       A    That's the grout around the window, yes,

        13  ma'am.

        14       Q    All right.  And you testified to me earlier

        15  that the contract with Insulated Wall Systems had

        16  nothing to do with masonry work?  There was no work

        17  in the masonry field to be done by anybody on behalf

        18  of Insulated Wall Systems?

        19       A    It's not in the contract.  That's true.

        20       Q    All right.  Why don't we go ahead and take

        21  our break, and it's about 25 till, so to quarter

        22  till.

        23       A    Quarter till?

        24       Q    Yes.

        25                      (A short break was held.)( John Tabor is there)

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  BY MS. TABOR:

         2       Q    All right.  Mr. McKinney, we are back on

         3  the record.  I'm still referring to what we've marked

         4  Plaintiff's Exhibit 5.

         5       A    Okay.

         6       Q    All right.  Referring to paragraph 12, this

         7  paragraph deals with the windows.

         8       A    Okay.

         9       Q    Let me ask you a question with regard to

        10  argon gas, and I'm not asking you for a technical

        11  opinion or anything like that.  I just want your

        12  understanding of what benefit that is in the window.

        13       A    50 percent drop in the sound level that

        14  comes through the window, 25 drop in the energy

        15  saving or 25 percent energy savings over the life of

        16  the windows.

        17       Q    All right.  And since you've quoted some

        18  very specific percentages to me, can you tell me

        19  where you acquired or where you got this information?

        20       A    Well, they are not specific in the terms

        21  that they are technical.  I'm not --

        22       Q    I just want to know how you came to know

        23  those specific things that you are talking about.

        24       A    I went on the Web and found them.

        25       Q    So these are things you got off the

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  Internet research?

         2       A    Yes, ma'am.

         3       Q    Prior to installing these windows did you

         4  have the original windows in the home, maybe original

         5  wood windows I guess?

         6       A    No they were aluminum.

         7       Q    They were aluminum?

         8       A    Yes, ma'am.

         9       Q    So what we call storm windows, or were they

        10  just windows that went in a house?

        11       A    We had the windows that came with the house

        12  obviously, and we also had what they call -- we had

        13  energy efficient windows installed by Sears, and I

        14  can't recall when; but it was supposed to mimic the

        15  double pane windows in that you have a magnetic strip

        16  around the inside of the window, and you have another

        17  plexiglass, I guess it's called, pane that goes in

        18  there.

        19       Q    In this system you are talking about, was

        20  that on the interior of the house or the exterior?

        21       A    It was on the interior.

        22       Q    Oh, okay.  All right.  Going back to

        23  something I recalled about the home inspection, the

        24  bottom floor of your home, prior to this work that

        25  the plaintiff did, were you guys using that as living

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  space, or was that -- I remember your wife saying

         2  something about this was unfinished space.

         3       A    Yes, ma'am, but that was years ago.

         4       Q    Okay.

         5       A    The garden -- I mean the -- garden, the

         6  garage was that area in which -- well, it's our kind

         7  of what we call a living room I guess.  That was a

         8  garage at one time.

         9       Q    All right.  Okay.  But you already had all

        10  that set up, that living area and the bedroom there

        11  in kind of the back corner of that bottom floor.  Was

        12  all that setup prior to work being done that we are

        13  talking about today?

        14       A    Yes, ma'am.

        15       Q    The reason I'm asking that question, so

        16  you'll know where I'm going, is I want to know if

        17  prior to the installation of these windows that we

        18  are here about today, were you using that bottom

        19  floor as living space?

        20       A    Yes, ma'am.

        21       Q    Okay.  Have you noticed at all -- and I

        22  don't know if you've even kept track of these

        23  things -- since you had these replacement windows

        24  installed any drop in the cost that you are paying I

        25  guess per unit for energy?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    My power bill has gone up.

         2       Q    But would you agree that's for reasons

         3  other than the work that the Plaintiff had done?

         4       A    Excuse me?

         5       Q    Okay.  Everyone's power bill has probably

         6  gone up for energy cost reasons.  I'm just trying to

         7  see if you have noticed -- have you noticed any

         8  savings at all in a relative way by having these

         9  windows installed?

        10       A    No, ma'am.

        11       Q    All right.  Mr. McKinney, if I understood

        12  you correctly, you were saying that the benefit of

        13  the argon gas as you knew it was for sound and -- a

        14  sound buffer and energy savings?

        15       A    Yes, ma'am.

        16       Q    That's a fair statement?

        17       A    Yes, ma'am.

        18       Q    Okay.  With regard to the energy savings

        19  have you had anybody calculate what the lack of the

        20  argon gas, what has been the consequence of that as

        21  far as energy savings over the life of the window?

        22       A    No, ma'am.  I have done some calculations

        23  of my own.

        24       Q    All right.

        25       A    But I can't recall the exact numbers.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    Okay.

         2       A    But if you figure it up based on the data

         3  that I have and have studied over the life of the

         4  windows, which my understanding is 20 years, it comes

         5  to a considerable amount.

         6       Q    Are you contending in this lawsuit that if

         7  they had argon gas in them, you would be saving money

         8  on your energy bills?

         9       A    I'm contending that I ordered argon gas in

        10  the widows.

        11       Q    Move to strike.

        12            I'm asking are you contending that an

        13  element of your damage in this lawsuit is that if you

        14  had the argon gas, you would be afforded an energy

        15  savings that you are not getting?

        16       A    I'm not -- I don't believe we have -- let's

        17  see.  What is the word I'm looking for?  I don't

        18  believe we have included that in our damages, no.

        19       Q    So with regard to the windows, the crux of

        20  your complaint is we didn't get what we ordered?

        21       A    That's correct.

        22       Q    Okay.  And just because I want the record

        23  to be clear, were there any screens that you were

        24  missing off of the windows or screens that are

        25  damaged?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    There are at least three that are damaged.

         2       Q    Okay.  Are there any that just didn't get

         3  there?

         4       A    I do not know that.  I could not tell you.

         5  I mean I would have to go -- I do not believe that

         6  there are.  I'll put it that way.

         7       Q    All right.  Okay.  So on page three of this

         8  letter, Plaintiff's Exhibit 5 in paragraph 17, at

         9  that time says, The total in dispute at this point

        10  comes to 6570.  Therefore, the most I could sign off

        11  on and pay for is 9430?

        12       A    That's correct.

        13       Q    But given the wording of the contract,

        14  tying low within the lower bounds of the contract --

        15       A    I believe that I am, or was.

        16       Q    Well, let me finish the question.

        17       A    Okay.  I'm sorry.

        18       Q    Because she can't do it all.

        19            -- by refusing to do so; and, therefore, I

        20  will not pay you at this time unless you want to

        21  accept this as payment in full.

        22            All right.  So is it fair to say that on or

        23  about January 14, 2005, you are saying, Look, I'll

        24  pay you 9430 for this job, and that's it?

        25       A    Based on what I knew at the time, yes,

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  ma'am.

         2       Q    Okay.  I've just got some documents I just

         3  want to go over so I will have a better

         4  understanding.  These are documents I'll submit to

         5  you that you provided to me in the course of

         6  discovery, and I just want you to let me know so that

         7  I will have a better understanding of what they are.

         8       A    Can I say something?  I may not be able to

         9  speak to them.

        10       Q    Okay.  If you can't, and that's the whole

        11  point here, sir.  If you can't, you let me know.

        12       A    But I can tell you the person who can.

        13       Q    That's right.  That's fair enough.  Okay.

        14  I'm going to mark this as Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 6.

        15                      (Whereupon the document was
                                marked for identification as
        16                      Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 6.)

        17  BY MS. TABOR:

        18       Q    Take a look at that and tell me if you -- I

        19  realize it's got several things on it, but can you

        20  tell me what those are?

        21       A    Ma'am, I cannot speak to this.

        22       Q    All right.  Can you tell me what they are?

        23       A    They are I believe business cards from

        24  people who have come and looked at the work.

        25       Q    All right.  And who would be in a better

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  position to speak to those than you are, if you know?

         2       A    Robyn.

         3       Q    Okay.

         4       A    Ms. McKinney.

         5                      (Whereupon the document was
                                marked for identification as
         6                      Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 7.)

         7  BY MS. TABOR:

         8       Q    All right.  I'm going to have marked what

         9  you've been handed -- what I'm going to identify as

        10  Plaintiff's Exhibit 7.  Take a look at that and tell

        11  me, if you know, what that document is.

        12       A    Yes, I believe that's an e-mail to Bill

        13  Lambdin at Atlanta Home Technologies that involves

        14  getting a quote for the window replacement.  It would

        15  be better if my wife speaks to this.

        16       Q    Okay.  Did you ever have any conversations

        17  or dealings with Mr. Lambdin at Atlanta Home

        18  Technologies?

        19       A    No, ma'am.  My wife has taken care of all

        20  of this.

        21       Q    Okay.  Would you agree with me that

        22  Plaintiff's Exhibit 7 indicates on the top that this

        23  e-mail was sent on September 12th, 2005?

        24       A    That's what it says; but, again, this is a

        25  copy; and on e-mails who knows?  I can't, you know, I

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  wouldn't vouch for this document at all.  She may or

         2  may not know.  You would have to ask her.

         3       Q    Okay.  All right.  That's fair.

         4                      (Whereupon the document was
                                marked for identification as
         5                      Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 8.)

         6  BY MS. TABOR:

         7       Q    The same question I've asked you with the

         8  two prior documents.

         9       A    The same answer, if you want me to repeat

        10  the answer.

        11       Q    All right.  Plaintiff's Exhibit 8 --

        12       A    Yes.

        13       Q    -- appears to be correspondence --

        14       A    Now, let me say this: these are 9/12.  I

        15  was down on my -- I was in sciatica pain like you

        16  have never seen.

        17       Q    All right.  Okay.  All right.  But for the

        18  record we are going to make this clear on the record.

        19  All right.  Have you ever seen Plaintiff's Exhibit

        20  No. 8 prior to right now?

        21       A    I believe so.

        22       Q    Okay.  Can you tell me what your

        23  understanding of that document is?

        24       A    I believe -- now, this is a belief.  This

        25  is not a --

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    I'm only asking for your understanding.

         2  That's all.

         3       A    That's a -- it looks like a -- it looks

         4  like a quote for the slab.  The slab, yes.

         5       Q    All right.  On page one of Plaintiff's

         6  Exhibit No. 8 it appears that this is directed to a

         7  person named Rick Lorenz at Border Magic.  My

         8  question to you, sir, is: have you ever had any

         9  conversations or any other dealings with Rick Lorenz

        10  at Border Magic?

        11       A    No, ma'am.

        12       Q    All right.

        13       A    Once again, my wife handled that.

        14       Q    Okay.  All right.  Fair enough.  Thank you,

        15  sir.

        16                      (Whereupon the document was
                                marked for identification as
        17                      Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 9.)

        18  BY MS. TABOR:

        19       Q    All right.  I hand you what has been marked

        20  Plaintiff's 9.

        21       A    Okay.

        22       Q    Okay.  Plaintiff's 9 appears to be a

        23  transmittal to James Ferguson at TCS Construction

        24  Services, Inc.  My question is: have you ever had any

        25  conversations or any other contact with Mr. Ferguson

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  at TCS Construction Services, Inc.?

         2       A    Once again, my wife handled the work.

         3       Q    So the answer is, no, you have not had any?

         4       A    No.

         5       Q    All right.

         6                      (Whereupon the document was
                                marked for identification as
         7                      Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 10.)

         8  BY MS. TABOR:

         9       Q    If you would, take a look at what has now

        10  been identified and marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit 10.

        11       A    Yes, ma'am.  Yes, ma'am.

        12       Q    Okay.  It appears to be a transmittal to

        13  Bryan Beaty, I guess, of HardScapes.  Let me ask you

        14  the same question I asked you before.  Have you ever

        15  had any conversations or any other contact with

        16  Mr. Beaty at HardScapes?

        17       A    No, ma'am.

        18       Q    All right.  And if you have not, who would

        19  be the person most suited to discuss this document?

        20       A    My wife.

        21       Q    All right.  Thank you, sir.

        22                      (Whereupon the document was
                                marked for identification as
        23                      Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 11.)

        24  BY MS. TABOR:

        25       Q    All right.  If you will, look at what has

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  been marked Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 11.

         2       A    Okay.

         3       Q    Okay.  Let me ask you first, sir: have you

         4  ever seen this document prior to today?

         5       A    I think I have looked through it, yes,

         6  ma'am.

         7       Q    Okay.  On the first page it appears to be

         8  correspondence to Dan Bishop of SD & B Services.

         9       A    Yes, ma'am.

        10       Q    My question is: have you ever had any

        11  correspondence or conversation or any other contact

        12  with Mr. Bishop at SD & B Services?

        13       A    No, ma'am.

        14       Q    All right.  Who would be the person most --

        15       A    My wife.

        16       Q    There you go.  All right.  Thank you, sir.

        17                      (Whereupon the document was
                                marked for identification as
        18                      Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 12.)


        20            THE WITNESS:  Okay.

        21  BY MS. TABOR:

        22       Q    Okay.  I think we are up to No. 12.  After

        23  Jackie marks it, if you will just take a look at it.

        24       A    Okay.

        25       Q    Okay.  This seems to be correspondence to

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  Mr. Thomas Vaughn at Sequoyah Vinyl Creations, Inc.

         2  The first question is: have you ever seen this

         3  document before?

         4       A    I believe that I have.

         5       Q    All right.  Did you, in fact, send this to

         6  Mr. Vaughn?

         7       A    Not personally, no.  It was sent on my

         8  behalf.

         9       Q    And who sent the document on your behalf?

        10       A    Robyn.

        11       Q    All right.  Did you get a quote from

        12  Sequoyah Vinyl Creations, Inc., in response to your

        13  request?

        14       A    Yes.

        15       Q    All right.  And have you provided that to

        16  us?

        17       A    I would have to check on the list of things

        18  that we have done.

        19       Q    If I submit to you that I do not have a

        20  copy of Sequoyah's quote and ask you if you would

        21  please provide that to me, you know, on a piece of

        22  paper?

        23       A    I can write on the back.

        24       Q    Okay.  And my understanding is that

        25  Sequoyah has now been back out to your house since

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  the home inspection; is that correct?

         2       A    Yes, ma'am.

         3       Q    Go ahead and write down whatever you want

         4  to.  Then I'll ask you a question.

         5       A    You want me to provide the quote from

         6  Sequoyah?

         7       Q    Yes, sir.

         8       A    Okay.

         9       Q    All right.  Now, to jump ahead just a

        10  little bit since we are on the subject of Sequoyah,

        11  apparently they have come out to your house since the

        12  inspection that we had on the 5th and done some work

        13  to the home, correct?

        14       A    No, ma'am.

        15       Q    All right.  Tell me: but they did come out

        16  and remove some siding from the house?

        17       A    We wanted to know what was under the

        18  siding.

        19       Q    Okay.  Just can you tell me what they did

        20  that day?

        21       A    What they did is removed the siding

        22  underneath the window that's above the slab.

        23       Q    Okay.  The window on the first floor?

        24       A    Yes, ma'am.

        25       Q    All right.  All right.  Did they remove it

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  from any other portion of the home?

         2       A    No, ma'am.

         3       Q    And I know that you sent me via e-mail a

         4  couple of photographs in that area that you

         5  photographed for me below that window?

         6       A    Yes, ma'am.

         7       Q    Okay.  Since I don't have your quote from

         8  Sequoyah, I'm just going to have to kind of ask you

         9  some questions.  I'm kind of in the dark here.  What

        10  have you secured a quote from Sequoyah to do?

        11       A    Replace the siding and windows.

        12       Q    And was the exercise that you went through

        13  the other day that we've just been talking about, was

        14  that part of the effort to do that?

        15       A    No, ma'am.

        16       Q    Okay.  What was the purpose of doing that

        17  the other day?

        18       A    Part of siding is the way I understand it

        19  from reading the installation manuals, you know, it's

        20  kind of like -- gee, I don't know what I would

        21  describe it to; but it's more, you know, when you

        22  look at a house that's got new siding on it, it can

        23  look good; but the devil is always in the details of

        24  what's underneath, and what we were concerned about

        25  was what is underneath.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    Okay.

         2       A    Okay.  And we were told that wood would be

         3  replaced with wood, rotten wood for example.  We were

         4  told that when that window was going to be replaced,

         5  that, you know, the proper -- well, that window

         6  wasn't replaced.  That was a new installation.  So

         7  what the window has to have is a proper header on the

         8  top and the bottom.

         9            Now, as -- well, obviously I cannot testify

        10  to those.  I'm just trying to make a decision as to

        11  without those headers, you've got all that weight

        12  from the house on the window.  Okay.  What we wanted

        13  to determine or what I wanted to know is whether or

        14  not there was a proper header there that's going to

        15  support that whole part of the house; and also what

        16  was done underneath the window, because I couldn't

        17  remember, and as it turns out, all that wood was

        18  taken off and just replaced with five layers of foam

        19  board.

        20       Q    All right.  Let me break down a couple of

        21  things.  As far as the header above the window, is

        22  there a header there?

        23       A    It's not done properly.

        24       Q    Okay.  Is there a header there?

        25       A    No, ma'am.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    There is no wood above the window?

         2       A    Well, there's a difference between a header

         3  and wood.

         4       Q    Okay.  Tell me what's there since I wasn't

         5  there, that's your understanding.  Again, this is not

         6  a technical -- I'm not asking you for that.  I'm just

         7  asking what you know.

         8       A    There's a piece of wood there, but it is

         9  not tied on the ends as far as I can understand to

        10  the 2 x 4 supports, and that's the problem.

        11       Q    Okay.  Now let me ask you a question about

        12  the second part of what you said about the five

        13  layers.  Your house prior to this work that was done

        14  that we're here about today had a composite siding on

        15  it; is that correct?

        16       A    No, ma'am.

        17       Q    Did it have cedar wood?

        18       A    Yes, ma'am.

        19       Q    Okay.  So my understanding is that was

        20  removed from the home?

        21       A    No, ma'am.

        22       Q    It was not removed?

        23       A    No.

        24       Q    Were any portions of that cedar removed?

        25       A    As it turns out, yes, ma'am.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    Okay.  All right.  And so with regard to

         2  this area that you have now had exposed, just tell me

         3  a little bit more about what you are talking about.

         4  You said as it turns out all that's under there is

         5  five layers.  I'm just trying to understand.

         6       A    Yeah.  Well, you've seen the picture.

         7  What's underneath the window from the window bottom

         8  all the way to the bottom of the house, I guess you

         9  would call it, is no wood.  It's just five layers;

        10  and you obviously can't nail into foam board.

        11       Q    The studs are still there, correct?

        12       A    Yes, ma'am.

        13       Q    Okay.  And on top of the studs is foam

        14  board?

        15       A    Well, let me -- I would have to go look at

        16  the pictures again.  You don't have them?

        17       Q    No.

        18       A    Yes, ma'am.

        19       Q    Right.  But you keep referring to five

        20  layers, and I'm trying to figure out what five layers

        21  is.

        22       A    Five layers of foam board were folded up

        23  and put in that entire area.

        24       Q    Okay.  All right.

        25       A    And the siding was nailed to that, and

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  that's why it's all loose.

         2       Q    The siding wasn't nailed to the studs?

         3       A    No, ma'am.

         4       Q    Just to the foam board?

         5       A    Yes, ma'am, in that area.

         6       Q    All right.  Do you have a price from

         7  Sequoyah for the new siding and the new windows?

         8       A    I believe Robyn does.

         9       Q    Okay.  And you don't know what that figure

        10  is?

        11       A    I don't have it handy.

        12       Q    Do you know what it is?

        13       A    I'm not sure it would be fair for me to

        14  repeat it when I don't know exactly what it is.

        15       Q    Well, what have you heard?

        16       A    Somewhere around -- well --

        17       Q    It's just your guess, sir.  Just the best

        18  you can do.

        19       A    Nine to 10,000, something in that

        20  neighborhood.

        21       Q    For the whole job?

        22       A    For the siding alone.

        23       Q    Has anyone from Sequoyah told you that the

        24  siding that's on the house right now that was put up

        25  by the Plaintiff or on behalf of the Plaintiff is

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  improperly installed?

         2       A    Yes, ma'am.

         3       Q    Who?

         4       A    Thomas Vaughn.

         5       Q    And what is your understanding of

         6  Mr. Vaughn's relationship to Sequoyah?

         7       A    I believe he's the owner.  I'm not sure.

         8       Q    All right.  But at the present time in just

         9  trying to make sure I understand, other than this

        10  project you did the other day where y'all looked

        11  under the window, none of the siding had been removed

        12  from the home otherwise?

        13       A    That's correct.

        14       Q    Do you have any intension in the near

        15  future to have that removed?

        16       A    Yes, ma'am.

        17       Q    What I mean by that -- I should clarify.

        18  I'm sorry -- is: do you have a date, you know, that

        19  we are going to get to it in a month?  We'll be out

        20  there.  We've put it on the schedule, so to speak?

        21       A    Yes, ma'am, it's going to be replaced.

        22       Q    And the windows?  They are going to replace

        23  the windows?

        24       A    Yes, ma'am.

        25       Q    Has anyone at Sequoyah told you that these

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  windows are improperly installed?

         2       A    Yes, ma'am.

         3       Q    All right.  And would that be Mr. Vaughn?

         4       A    Yes, ma'am.

         5       Q    All 13 windows are improperly installed?

         6       A    Yes, ma'am.  We saw them.  They are two

         7  inches stuck into the siding.  But he's not the only

         8  one.

         9       Q    I'm just asking with regard to Sequoyah.

        10  All right.

        11                      (Whereupon the document was
                                marked for identification as
        12                      Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 13.)

        13            THE WITNESS:  Okay.

        14  BY MS. TABOR:

        15       Q    All right.  Now let me ask you with regard

        16  to Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 13, do you recognize this?

        17       A    I have seen it, yes, ma'am.

        18       Q    Can you tell me what this document is?

        19       A    I believe it's communication between us, me

        20  and my wife, and Mr. Weldon concerning the siding I

        21  believe.  You'll have to get more information from

        22  her.

        23       Q    Let me ask you this: did Mr. Weldon ever

        24  come out -- it appears from the document he came out

        25  and he was to give you a quote?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    Yes, ma'am.

         2       Q    Do you know whether or not he actually gave

         3  you a quote?

         4       A    No, ma'am.

         5       Q    You don't know, or he didn't.

         6       A    I don't know.

         7       Q    Okay.  All right.  And your wife would be

         8  the better person to ask that?

         9       A    Yes, ma'am.

        10       Q    Okay.  All right.  Have you ever met

        11  Mr. Weldon?

        12       A    No, ma'am.  That's what I was going to

        13  explain.  This was September 12th,'05.  I didn't meet

        14  anybody then.  I was on my back.

        15       Q    All right.

        16       A    I was incapacitated I guess would be the

        17  best word to put it.

        18       Q    Sir, this next document that I want to show

        19  you, I think what I'll do first is this is a

        20  compilation of some pages that you provided.  I'm

        21  going to let you look at the whole thing.  I didn't

        22  copy the whole thing.  I copied where that little

        23  mark, the little yellow tab is, about where that is;

        24  but look at the whole thing first.

        25       A    Yes, ma'am.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    And I think you saw the page I was

         2  referring to.  It's this one.  I'm going to mark that

         3  and the two pages behind it as an exhibit.  All

         4  right?

         5       A    Yes, ma'am.

         6                      (Whereupon the document was
                                marked for identification as
         7                      Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 14.)

         8  BY MS. TABOR:

         9       Q    That's these three pages, and I want you to

        10  take a look at it and tell me -- you can tell me what

        11  it is.

        12       A    It appears -- again, it's a copy.  Jana,

        13  it's not complete.  So I have -- so my standard

        14  objection stands.  It appears as if there is -- it is

        15  a quote on the siding and windows as far as I recall.

        16  Yes.  And Sears was astronomical.

        17       Q    Okay. All right.  I'm going to ask you:

        18  this, what we believe to be a quote from Sears, is

        19  this something you got after the work was

        20  performed --

        21       A    No, ma'am.

        22       Q    Wait.  Let me finish the question. -- by

        23  Insulated Wall Systems, or is this a quote you got

        24  prior to ever having any work by Insulated Wall

        25  Systems done?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    It was a quote we got prior to having any

         2  work done.

         3       Q    Okay.  All right.  That's what I wanted to

         4  know.

         5                      (Whereupon the document was
                                marked for identification as
         6                      Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 15.)

         7  BY MS. TABOR:

         8       Q    Okay.  All right.  Mr. McKinney, I show you

         9  what we've marked as Plaintiff's 15.  Earlier you

        10  testified you had a quote from Home Depot prior to

        11  the work that was done by Insulated Wall Systems; and

        12  I'm just asking: do these documents have to do with

        13  that quote you've been talking about?

        14       A    This is a quote that we received prior to

        15  any work done by Insulated Wall Systems.

        16       Q    All right.  Thank you.

        17                      (Whereupon the document was
                                marked for identification as
        18                      Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 16.)

        19  BY MS. TABOR:

        20       Q    Mr. McKinney, can you identify what has

        21  been marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 16?

        22       A    Once again, it's a copy.  It appears as if

        23  it's a quote from R.J.D. Exterior Designs for siding,

        24  shutters, gutters; and we had the deck and the other

        25  that's on the second page of this document.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    And is this a quote you got for the work

         2  prior to the work done by the Plaintiff?

         3       A    Yes, ma'am.

         4       Q    Okay.  And that's the one that you had

         5  referred to earlier in your testimony, correct?

         6       A    Yes, ma'am.

         7       Q    All right.

         8       A    Now, this man was actually lower than that.

         9       Q    All right.  Are you seeking damages in this

        10  lawsuit for personal injury?

        11       A    Yes.  Well, we have not modified it or not

        12  amended my counterclaim; but, yes, ma'am.

        13       Q    Okay.  And even though it's not been

        14  amended, tell me your understanding of -- well,

        15  strike that.

        16            Are these personal injuries that you

        17  sustained yourself personally?

        18       A    Yes, ma'am.

        19       Q    And tell me how you sustained the injuries.

        20       A    There are two things in June that I wound

        21  up doing.  The first one was having to remove all

        22  that concrete that Insulated Wall Systems left.  It

        23  came from the concrete that was holding down the post

        24  of the old work.  We have pictures that we've just

        25  supplied that shows all that mess that was left

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  uncleaned.

         2       Q    And when you say June, what year?

         3       A    This is June 2005.

         4       Q    Okay.  All right.  I'm sorry.  Go ahead.

         5       A    Since we anticipated having -- I'm not even

         6  sure of all the quotes we got.  I think they were in

         7  September, but I was anticipating having lots of

         8  folks come and look at the work, to come and look and

         9  give us quotes, and even lawyers since we are right

        10  in the middle of a lawsuit; and the last thing I

        11  needed was someone to trip over that.  So I had to

        12  remove all that and clean up the place.

        13       Q    Okay.

        14       A    That, when I did that first in June,

        15  sometime in June.  I can't recall.  I had to lift up

        16  the concrete and put it in the wheelbarrow and tote

        17  it off down to the place where we could put stuff

        18  like that.  That strained my back enormously.  The

        19  next thing I did was after we had gotten

        20  acknowledgement that the staircase was weak --

        21       Q    Are you talking about the deck?

        22       A    Yes, ma'am.

        23       Q    All right.

        24       A    -- in two areas, I decided it would be best

        25  to get some 4 x 4 posts and put under there to

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  provide the support so that it wouldn't break if we

         2  had people walking on the deck.  I went to Home Depot

         3  and bought -- I think we even have the receipt for

         4  that -- 4 x 4s, and I went and got them myself and

         5  brought them back; and apparently doing that twisting

         6  and holding a 4 x 4 I ruptured a disk.

         7       Q    All right.  Referring back to

         8  Plaintiff's -- if you'll look in your stack there,

         9  Plaintiff's Exhibit 5.

        10       A    Okay.

        11       Q    On the third page, paragraph 16, it's

        12  talking about something removed away.  It says, A

        13  handyman said he would charge me $100 to get rid of

        14  this.  Do you know who that was?

        15       A    It was one of the guys down the street if I

        16  recall.  I'm not sure.

        17       Q    All right.  So at the time you wrote this

        18  letter you believe you had at least at that point

        19  looked into someone else picking up this concrete and

        20  removing it?

        21       A    I had thought about it and we had talked

        22  about it, but it just didn't work out, and I wound up

        23  having to do it myself.

        24       Q    Okay.

        25       A    But it wasn't -- I mean, you know, it's --

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  it was the posts that did it.  There's no doubt about

         2  that.  It was the posts.

         3       Q    When did you install these portions on the

         4  deck?  You just talked about the posts.  When did you

         5  do that?  Was that also in June of '05?

         6       A    No.  That was closer to July, somewhere in

         7  the first part of July.

         8       Q    All right.  Had you ever had any back

         9  problems prior to that time?

        10       A    Yes, ma'am.  I've had ruptured disks

        11  before.

        12       Q    All right.  When is the last time you had a

        13  ruptured disc prior to the time that we just talked

        14  about?

        15       A    2001.

        16       Q    Did you have surgery?

        17       A    2002, yes, ma'am, I had surgery.

        18       Q    Do you remember what disk that was?

        19       A    If you want me to tell the number, no,

        20  ma'am, I can't tell you.

        21       Q    All right.  Did you see the same doctor you

        22  did for the one you --

        23       A    The same office.

        24       Q    The same group?

        25       A    The same group.  Not the same -- not the

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  same doctor.

         2       Q    All right.  What's the name of that group,

         3  because I just want to make sure I --

         4       A    Atlanta Neurological.

         5       Q    Atlanta Neurological Associates?

         6       A    Is that what you've got there?

         7       Q    On Tree Lane Road in Snellville?

         8       A    Yes, ma'am.

         9       Q    All right.  And with regard to the injury

        10  you sustained in the summer of 2005 that we are

        11  talking about, other than the doctors at Atlanta

        12  Neurosurgical Associates did you go see anybody else

        13  about that?

        14       A    Dr. Casteel.

        15       Q    Can you spell that, please?

        16       A    C-a-s-t-e-e-l.

        17       Q    Casteel?

        18       A    Linda.  She's a woman.

        19       Q    And where is she located?

        20       A    Right there in Centerville around the

        21  corner from us.

        22       Q    And what kind of doctor is she?

        23       A    She's a family practitioner.

        24       Q    And you had surgery for this disk?

        25       A    Yes, ma'am.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    And that was outpatient surgery?

         2       A    September 20 --

         3       Q    Outpatient?

         4       A    Yes, ma'am.

         5       Q    All right.  Did you have to go to any

         6  physical therapy or anything after that treatment?

         7       A    No, ma'am.

         8       Q    All right.  The surgery that you received,

         9  did that correct the problem you were having?

        10       A    Not entirely.

        11       Q    All right.  Do you still see a doctor about

        12  that?

        13       A    No, ma'am.

        14       Q    Okay.

        15       A    To correct it, it was just sciatic pain,

        16  but it damaged the nerve and has left the right leg

        17  numb.

        18       Q    Okay.  Do you plan to have any other

        19  treatment about your back, other than that which

        20  you've already received?

        21       A    No, ma'am.

        22       Q    Let me tell you what I'm going to do,

        23  Mr. McKinney.  I don't have -- let me just kind of

        24  give you an outline of what I've got to do here.

        25  I've got a couple more documents and I need to ask

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  you about your counterclaims and a few other things.

         2  I think what we'll do is we'll go for about 30

         3  minutes, and we'll take a break for 30 minutes and

         4  have something to eat; and then we'll come back, and

         5  hopefully we can finish up in the middle of the

         6  afternoon so we can all get home before everybody

         7  else goes.  All right?

         8       A    All right.  So you want to go 30 more

         9  minutes.

        10       Q    We'll go to one.  Let's go to one, and then

        11  let's just take a quick break, 30 minutes.  You guys

        12  can run out and get something.  We'll do the same and (JOHN TABOR IS THERE)

        13  come back and finish up.  All right?

        14       A    (Nods head up and down.)

        15                      (Whereupon the document was
                                marked for identification as
        16                      Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 17.)

        17  BY MS. TABOR:

        18       Q    All right.  Mr. McKinney, we have marked

        19  and you have been handed what has how been identified

        20  as Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 17.  I want you to take a

        21  look at that; and if you can, tell me if you have

        22  ever seen this document before.

        23       A    Yes, ma'am.

        24       Q    Okay.  Can you tell us for the record what

        25  is that document?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    It has no title on it, so I'm not really

         2  sure what it would be identified as.  It looks like

         3  it's from the Governor's Office of Consumer Affairs;

         4  and I'll tell you right up front it would be best to

         5  discuss this with Robyn.

         6       Q    Let me ask you: did you ever have any

         7  discussions or conversations with anyone on behalf of

         8  the Governor's Office of Consumer Affairs?

         9       A    Personally?

        10       Q    Personally with regard to Insulated Wall

        11  Systems.

        12       A    No, ma'am.  September 12th, my surgery was

        13  scheduled September 19th.  I was on heavy drugs.

        14       Q    Have you personally ever filed a complaint

        15  against Insulated Wall Systems with the City of

        16  Chamblee?

        17       A    I have not personally.

        18       Q    Do you know of any complaint that was filed

        19  on your behalf with the City of Chamblee with regard

        20  to Insulated Wall Systems?

        21       A    You'll have to ask my wife about that, but

        22  I believe she did.  I'm not sure.

        23                      (Whereupon the document was
                                marked for identification as
        24                      Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 18.)

        25  BY MS. TABOR:

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    You have been handed what has now been

         2  marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit 18.  I would like you

         3  to look at that, and let me know if you can tell me

         4  what that document is.

         5       A    It looks like correspondence with the

         6  Better Business Bureau in Atlanta.

         7       Q    All right.  Have you personally ever had

         8  any correspondence or conversations with anyone on

         9  behalf of the Better Business Bureau with regard

        10  to --

        11       A    No, ma'am.  Once again, my wife is handling

        12  all of that.

        13       Q    Have you personally ever made any complaint

        14  or charge against Insulated Wall Systems to any

        15  governmental entity?

        16       A    No, ma'am.

        17       Q    Other than the complaints that we have just

        18  referred to, to the Better Business Bureau, to the

        19  City of Chamblee, to the Governor's Office of

        20  Consumer Affairs, are you aware of any complaint that

        21  was filed on your behalf with any other governmental

        22  entity with regard to Insulated Wall Systems?

        23       A    You can get a more accurate answer from

        24  her; but, no, I have not.

        25       Q    Okay.  All right.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    That doesn't mean it didn't happen.

         2       Q    I'm just asking for what you know.

         3       A    And even there I'm not sure; because, as I

         4  told you, during that time period I couldn't testify

         5  to much of anything.

         6       Q    From the time that the work was done back

         7  in the fall of 2004, let's say from December 2004

         8  until this lawsuit was initiated in I believe -- let

         9  me get you the right date -- June of 2005, did you

        10  have anyone, whether they be an inspector or another

        11  contractor, come out and look at the work that had

        12  been performed by Insulated Wall Systems?

        13       A    First of all, I'm going to object to the

        14  work is done part.  We never felt or believed that

        15  the work is done; and by virtue of what is not done,

        16  which is not fulfilled, and by the standard of work,

        17  so I would object to that first part of the question.

        18            Now, what was the last part.

        19       Q    All right.  I move to strike as it's

        20  nonresponsive.

        21            And I'll rephrase the question.  By

        22  December of 2004 no one on behalf of Insulated Wall

        23  Systems was working at your house, correct?

        24       A    That's correct.

        25       Q    All right.  From that time period until

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  June of 2005 did you have any home inspector, any

         2  other governmental inspector, any builder, any

         3  contractor, come out and look at the work that had

         4  been done by Insulated Wall Systems?

         5       A    It would be best if you talked to my wife.

         6       Q    Do you have any knowledge?

         7       A    I believe we did is what I'm -- would be my

         8  response, but I couldn't tell you specifically who it

         9  was.

        10       Q    All right.  Do you recall whether during

        11  that same time period you had anyone come out and

        12  give you an estimate to replace that work?

        13       A    Yes, ma'am, I believe we did.  Again,

        14  you'll have to refer to Robyn.

        15       Q    Other than the quote that we think you got

        16  from Sequoyah, is it your testimony that you have

        17  provided to me ever estimate that you have been

        18  provided by another contractor with regard to

        19  repairing or replacing the work that was done by

        20  Insulated Wall Systems?

        21       A    I would have to check with her to answer

        22  your question.

        23       Q    All right.

        24                      (Whereupon the document was
                                marked for identification as
        25                      Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 19.)

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1            THE WITNESS:  Okay.

         2  BY MS. TABOR:

         3       Q    All right.  Mr. McKinney, you've been

         4  handed a document that has now been marked

         5  Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 19.  Now that you've had an

         6  opportunity to look at it, can you tell me for the

         7  record what this document is?

         8       A    It appears as if it's an engineering report

         9  from Macon Gooch Consultants.

        10       Q    All right.  And the letter is dated

        11  September 28, 2005; is that correct?

        12       A    That's correct.

        13       Q    Has Macon E. Gooch, III, ever personally

        14  inspected your home?

        15       A    I don't believe he has.

        16       Q    Who do you believe did the inspection?

        17       A    Nathan, his son.

        18       Q    Nathan, Jr.?

        19       A    Nathan, Jr.

        20       Q    Okay.  All right.  And when did -- I'm

        21  going to call him Mr. Gooch, but I'm referring to

        22  Nathan.

        23       A    Okay.

        24       Q    When did Mr. Gooch come out?

        25       A    You would have to discuss that with my

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  wife.

         2       Q    Did you employ Mr. Gooch to come out?

         3       A    He was employed on my behalf, yes, ma'am.

         4       Q    All right.

         5       A    Ma'am, I was in no position to employ

         6  anybody.

         7       Q    All right.  I move to strike as

         8  nonresponsive.

         9            Did you employ him?

        10       A    Personally?

        11       Q    Yes.

        12       A    No, ma'am.

        13       Q    Okay.  All right.  When he came out to

        14  inspect the home, were you present?

        15       A    I was in the house on my back.

        16       Q    Okay.  Did you have any conversations with

        17  him?

        18       A    No, ma'am.

        19       Q    And that was handled by your wife?

        20       A    Yes, ma'am.

        21       Q    Now, I've asked you the time period between

        22  the cessation of work and the initiation of the

        23  lawsuit.  I'm going to follow-up with that and ask

        24  from the time this lawsuit was filed in June of 2005

        25  until Mr. Gooch came out, do you know of any other

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  inspectors that came out to look at your house?

         2       A    No.  The answer is no.  I would refer you

         3  to my wife.

         4       Q    All right.  Other than Mr. Nathan Gooch, do

         5  you know of any other inspectors that have come out

         6  to look at your home since then?

         7       A    Yes, ma'am.

         8       Q    Okay.  Who would that be?

         9       A    Keith Cook.  You will be receiving that

        10  report soon.

        11       Q    All right.

        12       A    He's with Home Smart, and we have the eight

        13  page report that you -- as soon as we get a signed

        14  copy or a certified copy or whatever it's supposed to

        15  be, we will be updating our discovery.

        16       Q    Okay.  Anybody else?

        17       A    No, ma'am.

        18       Q    Since you are telling me that you are going

        19  to be sending me a report from Mr. Cook, are you

        20  going to designate him as an expert?

        21       A    Yes, ma'am, more than likely.

        22       Q    All right.  What about Mr. Gooch?

        23       A    Yes, ma'am, more than likely.

        24       Q    All right.  Other than this document we

        25  have before us signed by Nathan Gooch, do you have

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  any other documents that Nathan Gooch has authored

         2  with regard to his inspection?

         3       A    This is the 19th?

         4       Q    Yes.

         5       A    No, ma'am.  I believe this is the only one.

         6       Q    This is all you have.  Okay.  All right.

         7  All right.  We've got a few minutes, so we might as

         8  well keep on going.

         9            All right.  I want to refer now,

        10  Mr. McKinney, to your affirmative defenses in

        11  counterclaim that you have filed in this lawsuit; and

        12  I've got my copy of it here, and at any time you want

        13  to look at it, I'll be glad to let you refer to it.

        14            In the answer you have listed several

        15  affirmative defenses; and since you are operating as

        16  your own counsel, I would like to ask you the basis

        17  for which you have asserted a couple of these

        18  defenses.  The first one I would like to ask you

        19  about is the third defense, Plaintiff's claims are

        20  barred by the doctrine of estoppel.  What does that

        21  mean to you?

        22       A    Estoppel means you are prevented from

        23  saying certain things that are not true is the way I

        24  understand it.

        25       Q    Okay.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    I will have to go back.  It has been a long

         2  time since I did that.  I went through the

         3  understanding that brought me to that reasoning; and

         4  of course as things move along, I will have to go

         5  back and reestablish that understanding.

         6       Q    Are you contending in this lawsuit that the

         7  Plaintiff has no right to pursue you for damages

         8  because -- well, I guess that's my question.  Are you

         9  contending in this lawsuit that the Plaintiff has no

        10  rights to bring a lawsuit against you?

        11       A    Yes, ma'am.

        12       Q    Okay.  And on what basis?

        13       A    That the contract is not fulfilled is the

        14  first one.

        15       Q    All right.

        16       A    The second one is --

        17       Q    Have you heard the phrase breach is good?

        18       A    Excuse me?

        19       Q    Have you ever heard the phrase breach is

        20  good?

        21       A    No, ma'am.

        22       Q    All right.  The next question is your

        23  eighth defense which is: the plaintiff through its

        24  negligence and fraud has an assumption of the risk.

        25  Can you tell me what you meant by that statement?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    My understanding of that is that when you

         2  take on a job, you assume the risks, you know, you

         3  assume -- gee, I feel like I'm in law school 101 --

         4  you know, it's like any job that we had as an

         5  engineer.  If I take it on, I assume the risks of

         6  failure.

         7       Q    Of failure?

         8       A    Yes, ma'am.

         9       Q    All right.  And we touched on this a little

        10  bit ago.  Can you articulate for me what facts you

        11  have to support that the Plaintiff has engaged in

        12  defrauding you?

        13       A    Professional is the first word that comes

        14  to mind, professional work.  The work is not

        15  professional.  If we go into the contract and talk

        16  about the things that my understanding as a contract

        17  was, I believe the contractor agrees to do all work

        18  in a good and workmanlike manner.  The term he used

        19  most often was professional.  The engineering reports

        20  that we have show it's not anywhere close.

        21            You have every -- my understanding of the

        22  acknowledgment of the completion of work signed by

        23  the owner of said premise shall be sufficient notice.

        24  When I look at sufficient, I see a required notice;

        25  in other words, you can't get to Florida without

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  sufficient gasoline; and this is the way it was

         2  explained to me.  Okay.  That there would be a

         3  walk-through.  There would be a checklist of all --

         4  to make sure all the items were done in the contract.

         5  There would be a punch list created of things that

         6  needed to be fixed and --

         7       Q    Let me ask you a question: let's say --

         8       A    I would like to finish.

         9       Q    Okay.  Go ahead.  I'm sorry.  Go ahead.

        10       A    There will be a punch list, and he would

        11  come back and he would fix these things.

        12       Q    Okay.

        13       A    There would be a sign-off sheet.  I would

        14  sign off, and then I would hand him the money.  That

        15  was explained that way in pretty much detail.

        16       Q    All right.  Let me ask you a question:

        17  using that rationalization, hypothetically the

        18  work -- you signed the contract and the work is

        19  performed.  Mr. Tabor comes out, and you have a

        20  walk-through.

        21       A    That hasn't occurred.

        22       Q    This is a hypothetical question.

        23       A    Okay.

        24       Q    But he doesn't bring a form for you to

        25  sign, has the contract been fulfilled?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    If the work had been done in a professional

         2  manner and all the items, we could have pulled out a

         3  white piece paper.

         4       Q    Well, let's just say he says I'm not going

         5  to sign anything else.  Do you think then because he

         6  wouldn't sign a piece of paper --

         7       A    Well, of course not.

         8       Q    Okay.

         9       A    But the items certainly had to be done on

        10  the contract.

        11       Q    I understand, and my hypothetical

        12  question --

        13       A    Am I hung up on a piece of paper?  Is that

        14  the point you are trying to make?

        15       Q    I'm just trying to get a better

        16  understanding --

        17       A    I mean it is what the contracts says.

        18  Acknowledgement --

        19       Q    You just told me certain things that you

        20  understood the contract to be --

        21       A    I understand.

        22       Q    -- including a walk-through, a punch list,

        23  and a sign-off sheet; and my question to you was:

        24  hypothetically speaking the work was performed, a

        25  walk-through was done and there was no punch list,

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  has the contract been fulfilled?

         2       A    If the work had been done --

         3       Q    That's my question.

         4       A    If the work had been done in accordance

         5  with the contract, the listed items, is it absolutely

         6  necessary?  I can waive that if I wanted.  Would I

         7  hold off paying him because he didn't have a piece of

         8  paper?  No, ma'am.

         9       Q    Under your interpretation of the contract,

        10  because part of the form says and I quote: The

        11  acknowledgment of the completion of the work signed

        12  by the owner of said premises shall be sufficient

        13  notice that this contract has been satisfactorily

        14  completed by the contractor on the day thereof in

        15  accordance with the terms of the contract.

        16            I'm asking you: do you believe that such

        17  signature was necessary, hypothetically speaking, if

        18  all the work is performed properly and all the

        19  repairs that you want have been done, does that piece

        20  of paper signed by you at your --

        21       A    I'm not a lawyer, ma'am.

        22       Q    No, sir, but you are acting as one.  So

        23  here is my question: or is it your contention that

        24  this contract as you understand it says that unless

        25  and until you sign off on work, you don't owe any

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  money?

         2       A    No, ma'am.  That's kind of ridiculous, but

         3  I have looked up that sentence, and you can find that

         4  exact sentence on the Web.  It's in the FHA

         5  contracts.  It's a completion certificate.  It's

         6  usually a formal situation where --

         7       Q    Mr. McKinney, I move to strike as

         8  nonresponsive.  That's not my question.

         9       A    To answer your question in a legal sense, I

        10  can't because I'm not a lawyer.

        11       Q    Okay.  Paragraph 42 of your complaint, or

        12  counterclaim we'll call it.  It says: Plaintiff's

        13  first breach occurred on or about September 22, 2004,

        14  and subsequent breaches as follows.  See exhibit.

        15            All right.  My question to you, and I'm

        16  going to let you look at this, is: I want to know

        17  what you think the first breach of that contract was.

        18       A    We received the windows on September -- I

        19  believe they were late -- on September 22nd, and we

        20  received them, and they do not have argon gas.

        21       Q    Okay.  You believe that the first breach of

        22  the contract was the fact that the windows were not

        23  constructed with argon gas?

        24       A    Were not ordered with argon gas.

        25       Q    Okay.  My question was: they were not

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  constructed with argon gas?

         2       A    That's a fact.  They were not constructed

         3  with --

         4       Q    Okay.

         5       A    -- and we did not receive windows with

         6  argon gas.

         7       Q    And when did you become aware of the fact

         8  that those windows did not have argon gas?

         9       A    It would be best if you talked to my wife.

        10  She pulled the labels off.  When the windows were

        11  delivered, she pulled several labels off; and she

        12  talked to Jimmy at that point.

        13       Q    So she was --

        14       A    When she was looking at the label and said,

        15  Do these windows have argon gas?  And he said no, and (SOMEONE ADDED THE WORD NO)

        16  then they had a conversation.  It would be better if

        17  she --

        18       Q    All right.  Well, that's fair enough.

        19            But you have some understanding that prior

        20  to the installation of these windows there was some

        21  question of whether they possessed the argon gas?

        22       A    Yes, ma'am.

        23       Q    Okay.  All right.  Paragraph 43 of your

        24  counterclaim says, and I quote, Plaintiff's breach is

        25  total, and it is the direct cause of damage to

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  Defendant and to the residence, which includes among

         2  other things a loss in market value and saleability

         3  of the residence, plus the cost of repairing and

         4  replacing Plaintiff's improper and defective work on

         5  Defendant's residence.

         6            Okay.  My question is: you're making an

         7  allegation in there that the work done by the

         8  Plaintiff has resulted in a loss in market value to

         9  your home; is that right?

        10       A    That was the alleging, yes.

        11       Q    And have you had anyone qualified in the

        12  field of appraising real estate inform you that the

        13  work that was done by the Plaintiff has in some

        14  manner devalued the value of your home?

        15       A    No, ma'am.

        16       Q    Okay.  All right.  I tell you what.  It's

        17  almost 1:00 o'clock, and we are going to go into a

        18  new subject.  So why don't we stop, and we'll come

        19  back at 1:30.  All right?

        20       A    What time do you want to come back?

        21       Q    1:30.  All right?

        22       A    Fair enough.

        23                      (A short lunch break was held.) (JOHN TABOR IS THERE)

        24  BY MS. TABOR:

        25       Q    All right.  We're back on the record.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1            Okay.  Mr. McKinney, prior to lunch we were

         2  discussing certain aspects of your counterclaim, and

         3  I want to go back to that.  All right?

         4       A    Yes.

         5       Q    Count 2 is entitled, Assumption of Duty.

         6  What do you mean by assumption of duty?  What kind of

         7  legal claim is assumption of duty?

         8       A    Well, I thought I looked it up in Georgia

         9  law, but I may have not been thorough enough in that

        10  respect; but to me assumption of duty is -- I've seen

        11  the elements.  In fact -- well, to tell you the

        12  truth, I haven't really reviewed them lately.  So

        13  that's what?  Almost a year-and-a-half old.

        14            Assumption of duty is that when he takes on

        15  a task like the deck or the slab, when a contractor

        16  takes on that, he assumes a certain amount of duty to

        17  the safety of the people and the safety of the house.

        18       Q    Okay.

        19       A    Now, that may be modified, you know, to

        20  represent what Georgia would call it.

        21       Q    All right.  In paragraph 47, and I'll go

        22  ahead and read it to you: Plaintiff's failure to

        23  exercise reasonable care in the construction of the

        24  deck has damaged Defendant's residence in that the

        25  entire bay area bump out, which consists of two

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  windows and a door, have sunken, making the door not

         2  function properly since work stopped uncompleted on

         3  November 2, 2004.

         4            Tell me what you mean by that statement.

         5       A    I believe you saw the door.  What we think

         6  happened between the deck and even the siding on the

         7  window sides of the door, there was so much wood

         8  taken off -- I mean what I really know more than

         9  anything else is that before construction started the

        10  door worked just fine.  After, it didn't work at all.

        11       Q    Have you had anybody who has inspected the

        12  home look at the home on your behalf since the

        13  construction done by the Plaintiff and indicate to

        14  you that they think that that area has sunken making

        15  the door not function?

        16       A    I think it may be on the report, the

        17  engineering report.

        18       Q    Are you referring to Exhibit 19, the Macon

        19  Gooch letter?

        20       A    Yes, ma'am.

        21       Q    All right.

        22       A    Yes, number 7.

        23       Q    Number 7.  Okay.

        24       A    A section of that appears to have settled,

        25  causing the door on the deck to not open properly.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    All right.  In Paragraph 48 it says:

         2  Plaintiff's failure to exercise reasonable care in

         3  the construction of the deck in accordance with

         4  Gwinnett County building code has exposed Defendant

         5  and Defendant's family to a hazardous condition and

         6  risk of injury in that the deck is not properly

         7  attached to the house or supported or braced, the

         8  stairs are not reinforced, and the landing is

         9  insufficient in size to be safe, among other things.

        10            Tell me what hazardous conditions and risks

        11  of injury you are referring to in that paragraph.

        12       A    The hazards are for starts --

        13       Q    Okay.

        14       A    -- the stair -- the step sizes are of

        15  different heights.  Okay.

        16       Q    Okay.

        17       A    So anybody that walks down the stairs with

        18  different heights -- I don't know if you have stairs

        19  in your home, but you can imagine what would happen

        20  if you've got stairs of different heights.  That's

        21  the first one.

        22       Q    Okay.

        23       A    The -- let's see.  We were talking about

        24  the landing.  The landing is way too small.  So what

        25  happens if you are moving at any speed whatsoever, if

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  you walk down that and you hit that landing and it is

         2  so small you cannot get your balance, you start

         3  tumbling over.

         4       Q    All right.

         5       A    The stair treads themselves, you can

         6  already see they are cracking.  There is no support

         7  there.  They are too long for their -- for the -- the

         8  span is too long is what I understand.  I think it's

         9  in the engineering report.

        10       Q    Okay.

        11       A    And that whole area of the deck underneath

        12  the bay area is supported by approximately 16 nails

        13  and into rotten wood.

        14       Q    Okay.  All right.  Paragraph 49 says:

        15  Plaintiff's failure to exercise reasonable care in

        16  the construction of the deck in accordance with

        17  Gwinnett County's building codes has exposed the

        18  Defendant's residence and deck itself to hazardous

        19  conditions that further risk damages from collapse.

        20            Have you had anyone indicate to you that

        21  the deck is going collapse?

        22       A    Yes, ma'am.

        23       Q    Who?

        24       A    I mean the question is not whether or not

        25  it's going to collapse.  It's when.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    Okay.  My question was: who told you it was

         2  going to collapse?

         3       A    Well, to actually testify in this thing

         4  I'll have to read this over to -- well, the deck as

         5  constructed is unsafe and remedial action must be

         6  taken.

         7       Q    And what are you referring to, sir?

         8       A    12.

         9       Q    12 talks about the septic tank.

        10       A    Yeah.  The sentence down below it.  This

        11  deck as constructed is unsafe for --

        12       Q    Okay.  I see it.  Okay.  So this deck as

        13  constructed is unsafe and remedial action must be

        14  taken.  And so from that you are taking it that the

        15  deck itself will collapse?

        16       A    That area over there, it's possible in my

        17  opinion.

        18       Q    Okay.  And that's your opinion, but has

        19  anybody told you that the deck will collapse?

        20       A    Well, actually no.

        21       Q    Okay.

        22       A    But, then again, the best person to consult

        23  with that question is you know who.

        24       Q    All right.  Okay.  Paragraph 52 says:

        25  Plaintiff completely destroyed Defendant's stated

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  purpose for contracting the slab, which was for a

         2  future screened-in porch attached to the house.  The

         3  slab Plaintiff provided is totally unsuitable for

         4  this purpose and is deteriorating after age 12 months

         5  and will continue if not corrected, potentially

         6  leaving the home unmarketable.

         7            Is it your contention in this lawsuit, sir,

         8  that if that slab deteriorates that your home is

         9  unmarketable?

        10       A    What I understand from the way he described

        11  it, since it's not on compacted soil and there are no

        12  footers there, if you take a look at the deck from

        13  the side viewpoint, from the side you have a deck

        14  that looks like that.  I mean a slab that looks like

        15  that.  As this moves downward, it's going to break

        16  somewhere in there.

        17       Q    The slab itself may crack is what you are

        18  saying?

        19       A    It's more than crack.  It can break, and

        20  this could keep moving down.  That's very well

        21  possible.

        22       Q    The remainder of the slab?

        23       A    Yes, ma'am.

        24       Q    The portion furtherest from the house?

        25       A    Yes, ma'am.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    And my question was: how does this leave

         2  your house unmarketable?

         3       A    Well, nobody is going to buy it if it does

         4  break.

         5       Q    So no one has told you if that happens, the

         6  home is unmarketable?

         7       A    No, but it stands to reason.

         8       Q    So that's just your conclusion?

         9       A    A loss of value.

        10       Q    All right.  Moving on to Count 3, the

        11  heading would be, Negligent Installation Home

        12  Improvement.  At Paragraph 61 it says, Even though

        13  many rotten boards on the Defendant's residence were

        14  removed, Plaintiff failed to replace those boards

        15  with new wood.  Instead the Plaintiff used quarter

        16  inch foam board pieces as no wood was delivered for

        17  this purpose.

        18            If you'll turn that over, Plaintiff's 2, if

        19  you'll refer to that, sir, can you tell me wherein it

        20  indicates that rotten wood that was removed was to be

        21  replaced with wood?

        22       A    It's not in the contract.  It's in the

        23  installation manual of siding.

        24       Q    Are you aware, sir, that there are

        25  thousands of homes in Gwinnett County alone where

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  vinyl siding is attached to homes that has no other

         2  structure but foam?

         3       A    Yes, ma'am, and I also know that they

         4  changed the law on that apparently and they require

         5  it now.

         6       Q    Okay.

         7       A    And the reason was because people can punch

         8  right through the siding.

         9       Q    I move to strike.  Nonresponsive.

        10            All right.  Moving on to count number five,

        11  paragraph two says: Plaintiff's representatives

        12  complete lack of any effort to satisfy the Defendant

        13  is evidence that Plaintiff's representative knew that

        14  the statements were false at the time he made them.

        15  Actions speak louder than words.

        16            Specifically what statements are you

        17  referring to that at the time that they were made

        18  were false?

        19       A    Professional work.  The walk-through, the

        20  whole story line of how it was going to work.  I mean

        21  I can't -- I'll have to look at my counterclaim and

        22  think about it for a while.

        23       Q    Okay.  Well, we're doing this now.  We're

        24  not thinking about it for a while.  You are entitled

        25  to look at it.  (Hands document to witness.)

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    Which one were you referring to?

         2       Q    I'm sorry.  Paragraph one and then two.

         3       A    Okay.  Well, it's more or less what I

         4  stated here.  All I was presented with was a card and

         5  a contract with satisfaction guaranteed before

         6  payment; and that he wouldn't even try to make or

         7  collect payment until all the things in the contract

         8  were completed to my satisfaction --

         9       Q    Okay.

        10       A    -- in accordance with the contract.

        11       Q    All right.  Let me ask you this, sir: just

        12  hypothetically speaking --

        13       A    I mean usually when people tell me

        14  something and they lay out how it's going to work and

        15  then they do something diametrically opposite of

        16  that, that's not fulfilling the contract.

        17       Q    Let me ask you this question: are we -- can

        18  we agree that cost or the amount of money that you

        19  were charged for the slab was $1400?

        20       A    That was the quote, yes, ma'am.

        21       Q    Okay.  And, in fact, a slab was poured?

        22       A    Concrete was poured.

        23       Q    Yes.  And the dimensions of that slab of

        24  concrete was somewhere close to those listed in the

        25  contract; is that correct?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    The dimensions?

         2       Q    Yes.

         3       A    Yes, ma'am.

         4       Q    Okay.  And you're not satisfied -- let's

         5  just speak in hypothetical terms.  Let's say that you

         6  became unsatisfied with that work because water was

         7  running down from the drain from the gutter and

         8  running across it and may cause some damage to it.

         9  We are just making this up.

        10            All right.  Under the premise of

        11  satisfaction guaranteed, is it reasonable in your

        12  opinion to have the contractor then jackhammer up

        13  that slab, put in a drain underneath it, and then

        14  pour another one on top of it?

        15       A    I would prefer not to answer it.

        16       Q    Well, you have to answer, sir.

        17       A    I mean hypothetical situations?

        18       Q    Yes, that's all it is.

        19       A    I really don't think so.

        20       Q    That's too much to ask?

        21       A    Yes.

        22       Q    Okay.

        23       A    Because that's not what I'm asking for.

        24       Q    It's just a hypothetical situation.

        25       A    You know, there are so many factors that go

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  into one making a decision such as the one that I've

         2  made, that to narrow it down to one narrow thing I

         3  think is most inappropriate; and it certainly can't

         4  be answered in any positive way.

         5       Q    All right.  I move to strike as

         6  nonresponsive.

         7            Do you think it's reasonable hypothetically

         8  speaking that if you or someone on your behalf was

         9  aware prior to the installation of the 13 replacement

        10  windows, that they may not contain argon gas, that

        11  it's reasonable to demand that the contractor remove

        12  all those windows and replace them with ones with

        13  argon gas?

        14       A    It's reasonable to expect him to replace

        15  the sashes.  That's what could have been done.

        16       Q    The sashes?

        17       A    Yes, ma'am.

        18       Q    Okay.

        19       A    Very low priced compared to the entire

        20  window.

        21       Q    At any time have you ever requested that

        22  Insulated Wall Systems replace the sashes on those

        23  windows?

        24       A    No, ma'am.  I didn't find that out until

        25  months later that that could be done.  I'm not a

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  contractor.

         2       Q    Do you have any knowledge one way or the --

         3       A    I mean I think -- let's go back.

         4       Q    I'm sorry.  I'm asking a question.

         5       A    I'm sorry.  I didn't mean to interrupt.

         6       Q    Do you have any knowledge one way or the

         7  other -- do you have any knowledge one way or the

         8  other whether or not the deck that was on your house

         9  previously met Gwinnett County building codes?

        10       A    At the time it was built, yes, ma'am.

        11       Q    And were you aware of that at the time that

        12  you contracted with the Plaintiff for the new deck?

        13       A    I'm sorry.  I didn't follow you there.

        14       Q    What I'm trying to find out is: at the time

        15  you contracted with the plaintiff for a new deck,

        16  whether or not you knew that the old deck met

        17  Gwinnett County building codes?

        18       A    It probably did not.  I don't know for

        19  sure, but probably --

        20       Q    You don't know?  Yes or no.  You either

        21  know or you don't know.

        22       A    Well, that depends on whether you are

        23  asking the question at the time the house was built,

        24  I'm pretty sure it was to code.

        25       Q    But do you have personal knowledge whether

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  it was or not?

         2       A    No, ma'am.

         3       Q    At the present time you contracted for this

         4  deck with the Plaintiff, did you have any discussions

         5  with Mr. Tabor or anybody else on behalf of the

         6  Plaintiff about building codes before you built the

         7  deck?

         8       A    Oh, yes, ma'am.

         9       Q    You did?

        10       A    Yes, ma'am.

        11       Q    Okay.  Tell me about that.

        12       A    All right.  I'll start with the contract.

        13  Strict accordance with --

        14       Q    No, no, no, no.  I said did you have any

        15  conversation?

        16       A    Oh, yes, ma'am.

        17       Q    Okay.  That's what I want to know.

        18       A    Yeah.  I asked him point blank if permits

        19  were required.  He said no.  My wife asked him point

        20  blank is it going to be built to code; and he said,

        21  yes, ma'am.  Or yes, sir.  No, I guess he said, yes,

        22  ma'am.

        23       Q    Let me ask you this: so there were no

        24  permits issued on these jobs, correct?

        25       A    That's correct.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    What damage have you suffered by the fact

         2  there was no permit issued?

         3       A    Well, none yet.

         4       Q    What damage are you going to suffer because

         5  no permit was ever issued?

         6       A    My understanding is if the inspector came

         7  out and if he does inspect it, I will be charged for

         8  certain -- I don't know how much money.

         9       Q    Okay.  What permit?  A building permit?

        10  You are complaining that no building permit was

        11  issued by Gwinnett County --

        12       A    As I understand --

        13       Q    Let me ask my question.  You are

        14  complaining that no building permit was issued by

        15  Gwinnett County for this work, correct?

        16       A    (Nods head up and down.)

        17       Q    Yes?

        18       A    Yes, ma'am.

        19       Q    And I'm asking you what damage, first of

        20  all, what damage have you suffered because no permits

        21  were issued?

        22       A    None right at the moment.

        23       Q    What damage do you anticipate that you are

        24  going to suffer?

        25       A    Money.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    From whom?

         2       A    Gwinnett Planning Commission.

         3       Q    And how are they --

         4       A    They have code enforcement that charges you

         5  a certain amount of money for not getting the

         6  permits.

         7       Q    So hypothetically speaking if a year ago I

         8  went out and I built a screen porch on the back of my

         9  house, and the county inspector comes out today and I

        10  as the homeowner don't have a copy of the permit for

        11  it, you are contending that you can be cited by the

        12  County because you don't have it?

        13       A    That's my understanding, yes, ma'am.

        14       Q    All right.  Where did you --

        15       A    And it's not --

        16       Q    Wait a minute.  Where did you acquire this

        17  understanding?

        18       A    Asking the people at Gwinnett Planning

        19  Commission, the county commissioners.

        20       Q    In a telephone call to the commissioner's

        21  office?

        22       A    Actually I went up there.

        23       Q    You went up there.  Okay.

        24       A    Yes, ma'am.

        25       Q    Do you remember who you talked to?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    No, ma'am.

         2       Q    All right.  But no one on behalf of

         3  Gwinnett County has ever come out to check on this

         4  work?

         5       A    No.  Not as of yet, no.

         6       Q    All right.  In your discussions --

         7       A    But --

         8       Q    In your discussions with folks at Gwinnett

         9  County, did they indicate to you that they perform

        10  surprised or random inspections to see if people

        11  actually had building permits?

        12       A    No.  What they did tell us is that when we

        13  did decide to build, we would have to get a permit.

        14  They may come out and inspect; and then when they

        15  start inspecting one thing, they generally speaking

        16  inspect everything.

        17       Q    All right.  So what you are telling me is

        18  that if they come out to your home today because you

        19  might be putting up a screened-in porch and you have

        20  applied for a building permit, if you cannot produce

        21  to them the building permit for the house itself, you

        22  might get cited?

        23       A    To answer your specific question, it's not

        24  me who has to present it.

        25       Q    Well, who would have to present it?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    It's in the computer system.

         2       Q    Okay.

         3       A    They already know.

         4       Q    Okay.  But if they don't have one on

         5  file --

         6       A    They could cite me.

         7       Q    -- they could cite you?

         8       A    Yes, ma'am.  That's what they said.

         9       Q    All right.  All right.  May I have that

        10  back, please, sir.

        11       A    (Hands document back.)

        12       Q    Okay.  Going on to count six, conspiracy,

        13  who is in a conspiracy?

        14       A    I guess you and your husband.

        15       Q    Okay.  And what conspiracy is that?

        16       A    I don't know.

        17       Q    You don't know?  You pleaded conspiracy in

        18  court, sir.  You need to tell me what the conspiracy

        19  is.

        20       A    Well, the conspiracy is trying to cram this

        21  shoddy work down my throat.

        22       Q    All right.  That's it?

        23       A    Yeah.

        24       Q    And how have I conspired to do that?

        25       A    Well, you are an acting lawyer.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    And so any time anybody performs any work

         2  and someone doesn't pay for it and they hire a

         3  lawyer, the lawyer is now in a conspiracy with their

         4  client?

         5       A    No, ma'am.

         6       Q    No?

         7       A    No, ma'am.

         8       Q    Well, then can you tell me how other than

         9  representing the Plaintiff in this lawsuit I have

        10  become --

        11       A    And I keep asking myself does a husband and

        12  wife have the unity of interest?  Yes, ma'am, they

        13  do.

        14       Q    So that's it?  Merely a familial

        15  relationship creates a conspiracy?

        16       A    A familial relationship.

        17       Q    That's it?

        18       A    It depends on what you are trying to do

        19  with it.

        20       Q    Well, sir, I want you to tell me what that

        21  is.

        22       A    You are trying to cram the -- using the

        23  power of the state to force this shoddy work down my

        24  throat.  Both of you are.

        25       Q    Would you not agree with me that everybody

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  is entitled to their day in court?

         2       A    Ma'am --

         3       Q    Answer the question.

         4       A    I don't know under the circumstances.

         5       Q    All right.  Is there a possibility in this

         6  lawsuit that if I follow proper channels and file a

         7  lawsuit and go before a jury that you may prevail?

         8       A    Yes, ma'am.

         9       Q    And if you're right, you should prevail?

        10       A    Yes, ma'am.  I think that --

        11       Q    Okay.  And then how in the world is filing

        12  a lawsuit a conspiracy?

        13       A    Well, it puts a lot of pressure on folks

        14  like me.

        15       Q    So the only people involved --

        16       A    You're trying to set me up to spend 20,

        17  $25,000 to hire an attorney, which he knows how --

        18  he's as much a lawyer as you are, ma'am, and you know

        19  it.

        20       Q    I move to the strike as nonresponsive.

        21            Sir, are Mr. Tabor and I the only two

        22  people in this conspiracy?

        23       A    Well, I don't know; and we are thinking

        24  about adding some more, because some of the comments

        25  like Keith Payne, he was telling us it was being

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  built to code left to right, for example.  So is he

         2  being instructed to do that?

         3            Jimmy, for example, he was telling us that

         4  the window had argon gas, even though it was not on

         5  the label.  So I don't know.  I mean it's a

         6  consideration.  We shall see.

         7       Q    All right.  Okay.  Count number seven says

         8  conspiracy to commit extortion.  Can you tell me how

         9  that differs from conspiracy?

        10       A    Well, to me extortion is trying to use

        11  force or -- threats or force to get want you want.

        12       Q    All right.  But you just told me with

        13  regard to count six that that's what I was doing.  So

        14  I want to know why you have two counts in here.  You

        15  are making a distinction.

        16       A    May I take a look at that?

        17       Q    Sure.

        18       A    Well, can I ask for a legal opinion?

        19       Q    Well, you are acting as your own lawyer.

        20  So I have every right to ask you what that is.

        21       A    Yeah.  And I also reserve the right to

        22  modify the claim if need be, which you may have a

        23  point.

        24       Q    You need to answer the question the best

        25  you can.  What is conspiracy to commit extortion?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  How is that different from conspiracy?

         2       A    It may not be different.

         3       Q    All right.

         4       A    But I don't know that for sure.  I will

         5  have to go back and study it and try to make a

         6  determination if that's the case; and if it is, then

         7  I will make appropriate modifications.

         8       Q    Okay.  How is the lien on your house

         9  unlawful?

        10       A    Because he didn't have the right to file a

        11  lawsuit and he didn't have the right to put the lien

        12  is the way I understand it.

        13       Q    Would you not agree that there is a certain

        14  amount of product that is on your home that you did

        15  not purchase?

        16       A    And he will get that product back.

        17       Q    That's not how things work.  Would you

        18  agree there is a certain amount of material on your

        19  home that you did not purchase that was actually

        20  purchased by the plaintiff?

        21       A    Yes, ma'am.

        22       Q    Okay.  In paragraph or subparagraph number

        23  130, It's a matter of record the federal definition

        24  of extortion is the obtaining of property from

        25  another without his consent induced by wrongful use

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  of actual or threatened force or violence or fear and

         2  under color of official right.

         3            What property of yours has been obtained

         4  from you without your consent?

         5       A    None.

         6       Q    Okay.

         7       A    It's an attempted extortion.

         8       Q    Count eight is intentional infliction of

         9  emotional distress.  Is it your contention in this

        10  lawsuit that you personally have the legal right to

        11  forward or attempt to recover for any damages

        12  suffered by your wife?

        13       A    Of course not.

        14       Q    All right.  The same question with regard

        15  to your mother.

        16       A    No, of course not, but whatever suffering

        17  they go through I suffer as well.

        18       Q    I move to strike as nonresponsive.

        19       A    And what he did was in the presence of all

        20  of us.

        21       Q    I move to strike as nonresponsive.

        22            What is your date of birth?

        23       A    January 31st, 1951.

        24       Q    All right.  I'll want to ask you a question

        25  about a document that you e-mailed me.  I don't want

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  to make it an exhibit.  I just want to talk about it

         2  a little bit.  It was a project inspection checklist;

         3  do you recall that?

         4       A    Uh-huh.

         5       Q    Yes?

         6       A    Yes, ma'am.  I'm sorry.

         7       Q    Is that something that you prepared?

         8       A    No, ma'am.  It's something my wife

         9  prepared.

        10       Q    Have you looked at it?

        11       A    Yes, ma'am.

        12       Q    Okay.  And I want to let you look at it in

        13  detail, and I want to ask you some questions about

        14  it.

        15       A    Okay.

        16       Q    Is it your contention in this lawsuit that

        17  each and every one of those things enumerated therein

        18  is somehow or another a breach of the agreement you

        19  had with the Plaintiff?

        20       A    Is it my contention for every one of them?

        21       Q    Yes, sir.

        22       A    Gosh, you would have to ask about each one

        23  in particular; but the vast majority, yes, ma'am, and

        24  possibly all of them.

        25       Q    Okay.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    I mean, yes, it's all of them I guess.  I

         2  mean everything I see here.

         3       Q    Okay.

         4       A    Now, with so many it's, you know, I

         5  hesitate to say -- well, no.  Yes, I have to say it's

         6  my contention.

         7       Q    All right.  Before I forget about it I want

         8  to ask you a question kind of out of context; but

         9  earlier I asked you if you had a business that you

        10  ran out of your home, and I believe your testimony

        11  was you didn't.

        12       A    Uh-huh (affirmative).

        13       Q    I don't want to have a Bill Clinton moment

        14  here.  You don't have a business you run out of

        15  anywhere on that property, do you?

        16       A    I have -- I make pepper mills in the barn,

        17  but I don't, you know, do I call it a business?  I

        18  don't think so.

        19       Q    But that's something you sell on the

        20  Internet?

        21       A    A few of them, yes, ma'am.

        22       Q    Okay.  Do you market them in any other

        23  ways?

        24       A    No, ma'am.

        25       Q    When you have a chance to look at that, if

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  I could see it.  I can ask you some questions about

         2  it.

         3       A    Okay.

         4       Q    Okay.  Was there ever any discussion with

         5  the Plaintiff prior to the work being done that some

         6  sort of written plans were going to be drawn up and

         7  submitted to the county?

         8       A    Of course not.  I didn't know any of this

         9  then.  He was the contractor.  He was supposed to

        10  know.

        11       Q    All right.  And if no plans were drawn up

        12  and submitted to the county, have you been damaged by

        13  that?

        14       A    Well, we can go back to the building

        15  permits, which I could be damaged by not getting

        16  building permits.  You can't get a building permit if

        17  you don't have a plan.

        18       Q    Okay.  Hypothetically speaking let's just

        19  say that a deck was constructed on the back of your

        20  home, and it is in accordance with the Gwinnett

        21  County codes, but there was no plan drawn up and no

        22  building permit was issued.  Would you be damaged by

        23  the fact that the plan and the permit had not been

        24  issued or drawn up?

        25       A    Ma'am, at the time if he had built a deck

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  in accordance with the contract --

         2       Q    That's not my question.  Would you please

         3  answer the question?

         4       A    No.  The answer to your question is no.

         5       Q    Okay.  All right.

         6       A    What we are pointing out is what the

         7  contractor's duties were.

         8       Q    I move to strike.  Nonresponsive.

         9            Tell me specifically, and I'm talking in

        10  terms of injury, what is the harm that could come to

        11  individuals from the deck?

        12       A    There's one place in particular that

        13  someone can bust their head wide open on the slab.

        14       Q    I'm talking about the deck.

        15       A    Yes, ma'am, you are; but let me show you

        16  how to get there real quick.

        17       Q    Absolutely.

        18       A    All right.

        19       Q    If you need a piece of paper, I'll give you

        20  a piece of paper.

        21       A    I mean that one is just an accident waiting

        22  to happen.

        23       Q    Okay.

        24       A    I'm going to give you a side-view where the

        25  stairs are as you come down.  Okay.  The problem is

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  the artist.  I can't draw, so you'll just have to

         2  forgive me.  And down here is the slab, and these are

         3  the steps; and I don't know if you recall the --

         4  shoot.  I can't draw 3-D.  I shouldn't even try; but

         5  the last step is about an inch-and-a-half taller than

         6  the rest of the steps going up the upper staircase.

         7            You didn't bring the pictures, did you?

         8       Q    I don't have any.

         9       A    Okay.  That last step is about an

        10  inch-and-a-half taller.  So what you do is when you

        11  are coming down the stairs, that last step represents

        12  a trip hazard.  Now, you've tripped.  Okay.  Imagine

        13  you've tripped and you're going to fall forward where

        14  you are going to hit the rail that's part of the

        15  lower platform.  That rail is -- there's a 4 x 4, and

        16  the rail is like this, and it's nailed I think right

        17  in there.  Yes.  It's barely hanging on.  The first

        18  trip -- the first time somebody trips it's going to

        19  probably knock that rail off.  The person is going to

        20  wind up in the slab and bust his head wide open, and

        21  that's about a four foot drop there.

        22       Q    Okay.  And that's on the last -- I remember

        23  that the stairs kind of turn.

        24       A    It's the middle platform.

        25       Q    Okay.  All right.  Anything else?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    Oh, gosh.  Yes.  I mean the bay area.  I

         2  mean we've got 16 nails into rotten wood.  That's

         3  going to give sooner or later.  The rails -- the

         4  rails on all three sides, I can push up to four

         5  inches from the center line.  They are supposed to

         6  hold up to 250 pounds I believe, and that's not going

         7  to happen.  So I mean there's four or five areas that

         8  are unsafe on the deck, very definitely.

         9       Q    What's wrong with the deck pickets?

        10       A    They are all bowed and they are beyond the

        11  four inches.

        12       Q    What is the four inches?

        13       A    The four inches between the pickets.

        14       Q    And where does this standard come from?

        15       A    The standard comes from the building code

        16  apparently; and it's to keep small animals and small

        17  children from falling off of the deck.  In some

        18  places there are not even pickets.  So if I have, you

        19  know, granddaughters or other people with their

        20  children, they are not going out on the deck.

        21       Q    Has anybody who has given you an estimate

        22  that you are aware of said they would put a slab up

        23  out there for about $1400?

        24       A    The least amount of the ones I've had is

        25  $1800.  Most of the slab quotes that you get, they

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  include tearing it out.  It's going to be about a

         2  thousand dollars to tear it out.  Like one of them

         3  has $2500.  So a thousand dollars to tear it out.

         4  He's $1500.  In other words, you seem to be trying to

         5  say that -- I mean at the time I didn't know anything

         6  about construction costs, and Mr. Tabor was giving

         7  the freedom to charge whatever you want.  I mean

         8  quote whatever you want.

         9       Q    I move to strike as nonresponsive.

        10            There is a high-risk of harm with the

        11  windows as done is number five under the window

        12  sheet.  What does that mean?

        13       A    They've not got tempered glass inside the

        14  living room.

        15       Q    And so?

        16       A    When a window is below a certain area, you

        17  are supposed to have tempered glass in them; and the

        18  reason is for protection of children, because they

        19  can bust out the window and fall out the window.

        20  Kids do that all the time.

        21       Q    Were there any discussions ever with

        22  Mr. Tabor about having tempered glass due to where

        23  they were in the house?

        24       A    No, ma'am.  That's part of the -- that's

        25  part of the building codes.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    You didn't contract for a window with

         2  tempered glass, did you?

         3       A    But we contracted for a window that was in

         4  that slot; in other words, it was down to this point.

         5       Q    Right.

         6       A    Okay.  We thought we were dealing with a

         7  professional contractor that knew what he was doing.

         8       Q    Do you have any small children in your

         9  home, Mr. McKinney?

        10       A    No, but I have grandchildren.

        11       Q    Did you ever express to Mr. Tabor at any

        12  time I've got grandchildren, and I need to make sure

        13  that the windows are tempered glass?

        14       A    These are --

        15       Q    Please answer the question.

        16       A    No, ma'am, but these are the CABO rules,

        17  you know, I mean --

        18       Q    Caulk is not to be relied on.  I heard your

        19  wife say that before.  What do y'all mean by that?

        20       A    It dries out in environmental conditions.

        21  Any builder will tell you that.

        22       Q    Caulk where?

        23       A    Certainly outside.

        24       Q    And this was referring to windows.  If you

        25  are not going to caulk them and in your dealings with

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  all of these contractors and inspectors, what are you

         2  supposed to do that you now know?

         3       A    Ma'am, I haven't talked to contractors.

         4       Q    Well, I just asked you what you knew.

         5       A    I'm not --

         6       Q    You don't know, but caulk is not to be

         7  relied on?

         8       A    If you want me to tell you what I would do

         9  is I would put flashing up on the window, down the

        10  window, and around the window; and I would also have

        11  the windows set out so it's actually over the siding.

        12  So then you don't have to worry about flashing on the

        13  top and you don't have to worry about flashing on the

        14  bottom, because the water is going to hit the window

        15  and it's going to run off and miss the siding

        16  entirely and go down on the ground.

        17       Q    Okay.  Would you agree with me that on many

        18  portions of your home the siding was put over the

        19  cedar that was already there?

        20       A    Yes, ma'am.

        21       Q    Okay.  And that underneath this siding

        22  there was a certain amount of quarter inch foam board

        23  installed?

        24       A    Yes, ma'am.

        25       Q    Okay.  And would you agree with me that if

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  you installed that in an area where the wood on the

         2  home remained and you added a quarter inch foam board

         3  and you added some siding, that would bump out the

         4  dimension of the house by some degree?

         5       A    Yes, ma'am.

         6       Q    Okay.  And if your windows had been framed

         7  at a time when the home's exterior consisted of the

         8  cedar siding and you added these other components on

         9  top of that cedar siding, would it not seem that the

        10  windows would appear now to be inset?

        11       A    No, ma'am.  I mean it would appear that

        12  way.

        13       Q    All right.

        14       A    But let me say one other thing.

        15       Q    Okay.

        16       A    He installed the windows.  He had control

        17  over that.

        18       Q    Okay.

        19       A    If we had not gotten windows, I certainly

        20  wouldn't have a complaint on that aspect of it, but

        21  he had the windows installed and he could certainly

        22  install them -- I mean it's obvious what he did.  He

        23  didn't have the window guy talk to the siding guy.

        24       Q    I move to strike as nonresponsive.

        25            Why is housewrap unacceptable?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    It's not taped.

         2       Q    Where?

         3       A    Around the windows and doors.

         4       Q    And you've seen this on each and every

         5  window?

         6       A    Yes, ma'am.

         7       Q    And each and every door?

         8       A    Well, if you want me to -- I will see it

         9  soon, but --

        10       Q    Just answer the question.

        11       A    The answer to the question is no.

        12       Q    You've got here that there is a risk of

        13  harm where the housewrap is down.  Tell me what that

        14  harm is.

        15       A    Okay.  The harm is that water gets behind

        16  the housewrap.  You yourself have admitted that water

        17  gets behind siding.

        18       Q    I have admitted nothing.

        19       A    Well, my understanding is that you banged

        20  on the siding and water came out and -- but be that

        21  as it may, it's the water that gets behind the

        22  housewrap.  When that water gets behind the

        23  housewrap, it gets into the envelope, the wall

        24  envelope, into the insulation, and eventually to the

        25  Sheetrock.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       Q    From all the folks that have been out there

         2  have you seen any indication that water has gotten

         3  into the Sheetrock?

         4       A    All the way to the Sheetrock?

         5       Q    Yes.

         6       A    Not as of yet.

         7       Q    Have you seen that it has gotten behind the

         8  housewrap?

         9       A    Yes, ma'am.

        10       Q    Where?

        11       A    The window upstairs.

        12       Q    Which window upstairs?

        13       A    The one over the deck, the slider.  Water

        14  is definitely getting down there.

        15       Q    The kitchen window?

        16       A    Yes, and also the window downstairs.

        17       Q    Which window downstairs?

        18       A    That's the one below the deck.

        19       Q    Directly underneath the kitchen one?

        20       A    Yes.

        21       Q    That's what you are saying?

        22       A    Yes.  And the two windows next to the bay

        23  area.  The caulk has already cracked.

        24       Q    Nails were put through the siding, what are

        25  you talking about there?

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    It voids the warranty.

         2       Q    Okay.  Has anybody told you that the --

         3       A    Yes, ma'am.

         4       Q    Who has told you that?

         5       A    The siding guy.

         6       Q    Who?

         7       A    For Royal.  What is his name?  Frank I

         8  believe is his last name.  I'll have to verify that.

         9       Q    He attended that where Sequoyah took off

        10  the --

        11       A    Ma'am, he came about --

        12       Q    Is that the --

        13       A    -- three hours after that.

        14       Q    Okay.  But it was that same day because I

        15  believe he's named --

        16       A    Yes, that same day.

        17       Q    -- in an e-mail.  That's why I'm asking.

        18       A    Yes, ma'am.  He pointedly told us that any

        19  siding with a face nail, that the warranty is voided.

        20       Q    All the siding on the house?

        21       A    No, the ones that have nails in it, that

        22  whole siding piece.  Now, the problem you run into

        23  then is when you start pulling off that piece and

        24  replace it, you've got color differences.

        25       Q    Okay.  The gutters were not installed to

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  drain properly.  What's going on with that?  What do

         2  you mean by that?

         3       A    We had Clifford with C & M Gutter Works

         4  out there at least three times.  We still believe

         5  that there is water leaking behind the gutters.  It

         6  definitely -- I mean when he first installed them, it

         7  was pouring out of there.

         8       Q    Do you know of anywhere on the home that

         9  you have actually seen evidence that there was water

        10  getting behind the gutter?

        11       A    Do I have what now?

        12       Q    Do you know of somewhere on the home where

        13  water is actually being turned back and going behind

        14  the gutter?

        15       A    I think the third time he came out there --

        16  I think they are fixed.

        17       Q    You think they are fixed?

        18       A    Yes, but we are not sure.

        19       Q    All right.  But you are claiming that they

        20  are not in this lawsuit, or are you?

        21       A    We are claiming there are still problems.

        22  Yes, there are still problems we believe.

        23       Q    All right.  And tell me what the

        24  problems --

        25       A    We believe some water is getting back from

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  what --

         2       Q    -- as you understand them are.

         3       A    As I understand it, water is still getting

         4  back there, as I understand it.  Also I know water --

         5  I don't think there, you know, they have to go

         6  from -- they have to -- the gutters have to drop an

         7  inch over 10 feet or something like that to get the

         8  water to go downhill obviously.  There around the --

         9  a particular problem area we think is around the

        10  fireplace on the front of the house.

        11       Q    On the front of the house.  Okay.  What do

        12  you think is happening there?

        13       A    I don't think he's got them slanted away

        14  from it.

        15       Q    Now, Clifford also installed on a separate

        16  deal the gutter tops?

        17       A    Yes.

        18       Q    Has he looked at the gutters other than the

        19  three times -- for these problems, other than the

        20  three times you've told me he came out during

        21  Insulated Wall Systems' work?

        22       A    No, ma'am, we hadn't had him out there yet.

        23       Q    Failed to provide all needed tools,

        24  material and labor, what are you talking about there?

        25       A    James coming to me borrowing a wheelbarrow,  (Keith Payne, Someone Changed the name said to James, there never was anyone going by the name James working at our house)

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  plastic, lights.  He didn't have floats or whatever

         2  you call it to make the smooth surface.  I didn't

         3  loan him that, but I did loan him a lot of stuff; and

         4  me and my wife were out there in the rain trying to

         5  help him out because it was pouring -- you've got

         6  very little time between the time you pour concrete

         7  and come to find out he didn't have these tools.  We

         8  wound up having to offer them or basically risk

         9  having the concrete pour out into the yard.  It was a

        10  disaster.  We were up to 11:00 o'clock; and, see,

        11  this was in November time frame.  So it gets dark

        12  around 6:00.

        13            Mr. Tabor insisted on having them pour it

        14  at 4:30 in the afternoon with less than an

        15  hour-and-a-half of light left; and Mr. Payne didn't

        16  have no lights.  He didn't have no plastic.  He

        17  didn't have no wheelbarrow.  He had nothing to

        18  actually do the job, even what he did do correctly,

        19  and I wound up having to loan him all kinds of stuff

        20  in an emergency situation.

        21       Q    No warning of damage to driveway from

        22  cement truck; what do you mean by that?

        23       A    The cement truck backed down and broke the

        24  driveway.

        25       Q    Okay.

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1       A    I mean do you know how much one of them

         2  trucks weigh?

         3       Q    Yes, I do.

         4            Give me just a minute.  I want to see if

         5  there's anything else I want to ask you.

         6            Okay.  You are going to provide me with the

         7  Sequoyah estimate in accordance with the question

         8  I've already asked?

         9       A    I've got it on the back of here.

        10       Q    And you're going to provide me when it's

        11  ready the report from this Mr. Cook, correct?

        12       A    Yes, ma'am.

        13       Q    All right.  I think that's all I have,

        14  but --

        15       A    We are in the process of getting the report

        16  that we can send out.

        17       Q    All right.

        18       A    We've got a preliminary --

        19            MS. TABOR:  Let's go off the record.







                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1                 E R R A T A   S H E E T

         2       Pursuant to Rule 30(e) of the Federal Rules
            of Civil Procedure and/or Georgia Code Annotated
         3  9-11-30(e), any changes in form or substance
            which you desire to make to your deposition
         4  testimony shall be entered upon the deposition with
            a statement of the reasons given for making them.
                 To assist you in making any such corrections,
         6  please use the form below.  If any supplemental or
            additional pages are necessary, please furnish same
         7  and attach them to this errata sheet.

         8                          * * *

         9       I, the undersigned, RON MCKINNEY,
            do hereby certify that I have read the foregoing
        10  deposition and that said deposition is true and
            accurate (with the exception of the following
        11  corrections listed below).

        12                          * * *

        13  Page _______  Line _______ Should read: ____________

        14  Reason for change: _________________________________

        15  ____________________________________________________

        16  Page _______ Line _______ Should read: _____________

        17  Reason for change: _________________________________

        18  ____________________________________________________

        19  Page _______ Line _______ Should read: _____________

        20  Reason for change: _________________________________

        21  Page _______ Line: _______ Should read: ____________

        22  Reason for change: _________________________________

        23  ____________________________________________________

        24  Page _______ Line _______ Should read: _____________

        25  Reason for change: _________________________________

                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1  ____________________________________________________

         2  Page ______ Line _______ Should read: ______________

         3  Reason for change: _________________________________

         4  ____________________________________________________

         5  Page ______ Line _______ Should read: ______________

         6  Reason for change: _________________________________

         7  ____________________________________________________

         8  Page ______ Line _______ Should read: ______________

         9  Reason for change: _________________________________

        10  ____________________________________________________

        11  Page _______ Line _______ Should read: _____________

        12  Reason for change: _________________________________
            Page _______ Line _______ Should read: _____________
            Reason for change: _________________________________
        15  ____________________________________________________


        18                         RON MCKINNEY


        20            Sworn to and subscribed before me, this
            the _____ day of ___________, 2006.

        22                          ____________________________
                                    Notary Public
        23                          My commission expires:



                              GUNTHER REPORTING

         1                   C E R T I F I C A T E

         2  G E O R G I A:

         3  FULTON COUNTY:

         4            I hereby certify that the foregoing

         5  deposition was stenographically recorded by me as

         6  stated in the caption.  The deponent was duly sworn

         7  to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but

         8  the truth.  The colloquies, statements, questions and

         9  answers thereto were reduced to typewriting under my

        10  direction and supervision and the deposition is a

        11  true and correct record of the testimony/evidence

        12  given by the deponent.

        13            I further certify that I am not a relative

        14  or employee or attorney or counsel of any of the

        15  parties, nor am I a relative or employee of such

        16  attorney or counsel, nor am I financially interested

        17  in the action.

        18            This, the 15th day of August, 2006.



        21                     _______________________________
                               JACKIE L. GUNTHER, CCR No. B906
        22                     Certified Court Reporter and
                               Notary Public.  My commission
        23                     expires: 2/18/08.



                              GUNTHER REPORTING


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