Someone tweeked important parts of this testimony. Someone edited what was said, both by Jana Tabor and Ron McKinney. Is that just another acceptable part of this stupid game too? I guess we will just have to wait and see. I will be highlighting all the differences.
1
IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF GWINNETT COUNTY
STATE OF GEORGIA
INSULATED WALL SYSTEMS, )
INC., )
)
Plaintiff, )
) CIVIL ACTION FILE
vs. )
) NO. 05A06942-9
RON MCKINNEY, )
)
Defendant. )
* * *
DEPOSITIONOF RON MCKINNEY
Thursday, 10:20 a.m.
July 27, 2006
Location: Casey & Associates
4175 Clairmont Road (next door to 4169 where Hilton Lived)
Chamblee, Georgia 30341
Reported by Jackie L. Gunther, CCR B906
* * *
GUNTHER REPORTING
CERTIFIED COURT REPORTING
4010 ROSWELL ROAD #8
POST OFFICE BOX 240275
ATLANTA, GEORGIA 30342
(404) 847-9217
2
1 I N D E X T O E X A M I N A T I O N
2 EXAMINATION PAGE
3 Examination by Ms. Tabor . . . . . . . . . . . 4
4 * * *
5 I N D E X T O E X H I B I T S
6 EXHIBITS (DESCRIPTION) PAGE
7 P-1 (Insulated Wall Systems Business Card) 21
8 P-2 (Insulated Wall Systems Contract) 25
9 P-3 (12/20/04 Letter to Mr. Tabor) 40
10 P-4 (1/3/05 Letter to Mr. Tabor) 52
11 P-5 (1/14/05 Letter to Mr. Tabor) 53
12 P-6 (Copy of Business Cards) 68
13 P-7 (9/12/05 E-Mail to Atlanta Home Technologies) 69
14 P-8 (9/12/05 E-Mail to Border Magic) 70
15 P-9 (9/12/05 E-Mail to TCS Construction) 71
16 P-10 (9/12/05 E-Mail to HardScapes) 72
17 P-11 (9/12/05 E-Mail to SD&B Services) 72
18 P-12 (9/12/05 E-Mail to Sequoyah Vinyl Creations) 73
19 P-13 (9/12/05 E-Mail to Weldon Home Exteriors) 82
20 P-14 (Quote from Sears) 84
21 P-15 (Quote from Renovation Premium Vinyl Windows)85
22 P-16 (Proposal from RJD Exterior Designers) 85
23 P-17 (Office of Consumer Affairs Letter) 92
24 P-18 (Better Business Complaint) 93
25 P-19 (Gooch Consultants Building Report) 96
GUNTHER REPORTING
3
1 (In compliance with OCGA 9-11-28(d) and 15-14-37
(a) and (b), the court reporter disclosed that she
2 was there on behalf of Gunther Reporting. The court
reporter further disclosed that she was retained by
3 Jana B. Tabor, Esq., to take down the proceedings,
for which the standard and customary rates will be
4 charged.)
5 * * *
6 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL
7 ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF:
8 JANA B. TABOR, ESQ.
450 Arborshade Trace
9 Duluth, Georgia 30097
(770) 814-8134
10
Also Present: John Tabor (in part)
(JOHN TABOR LEFT THE ROOM AT THE BEINNING SO HE COULD THREATEN TO HAVE ROBYN ARRESTED IF SHE DID NOT GET OUT OF THE HOUSE IMMEDIATELY. BARBARA SPEED WITNESSED THIS. HE THEN STOOD IN THE WAY AND WOULD NOT LET HER GET PASSED HIM TO SPEAK TO RON MCKINNEY)
11
12 ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANT:
13 Pro Se
14 * * *
15 (It was stipulated and agreed by and between
counsel for the respective parties and the witness
16 that the signature of the witness to the deposition
be reserved.)
17 * * *
18 MS. TABOR: This will be the deposition of
19 Ron McKinney. It's taken pursuant to notice.
20 It's taken for purposes of discovery and all
21 other purposes as provided by the Georgia Civil
22 Practice Act. Let the record reflect that at
23 this time I am reserving all objections with the
24 exception of the form of the question or the
25 responsiveness of the answer until time of trial
GUNTHER REPORTING
4
1 or other first use of the deposition. Let the
2 record also reflect that Mr. McKinney is acting
3 as his own attorney and he is pro se in this
4 proceeding.
5 If you will swear the witness, please.
6 MR. MCKINNEY: Can I read a statement? (WAS SAID AFTER EXAMINATION STARTED. MS. TABOR REPEATEDLY SAID NO WHEN RON TRIED TO STATE FOR THE RECORD HIS OBJECTIONS.)
7 MS. TABOR: No.
8 RON MCKINNEY,
9 being first duly sworn, was deposed and
10 testified as follows:
11 EXAMINATION
12 BY MS. TABOR:
13 Q Let me ask you a question: have you ever
14 given a deposition before?
15 A No.
16 Q All right. I just want to tell you a
17 couple things about how these things work. First of
18 all, as you can tell, the court reporter is taking
19 down every word that we say. Therefore, it's very
20 important, first of all, not to talk over one
21 another. So if you would, let me finish my question
22 before you respond; and I will try to do the same for
23 you. When you are making a response, I'll try not to
24 talk over you.
25 If there is anything that I ask you and you
GUNTHER REPORTING
5
1 are uncertain about what I'm asking you or I'm not
2 making myself clear, and that can happen, if you
3 would, just let me know; and I'll try my best to
4 rephrase it in a way that you are comfortable with
5 the question. Okay?
6 A Fair enough.
7 Q All right. Another housekeeping rule is
8 that it's difficult for her to take down uh-huh and
9 unh-unh. So if you could try to remember, and
10 everybody forgets, if your answer is going to be yes
11 or no, to use a word like that instead of uh-huh or
12 unh-unh, which we all do when we are having normal
13 conversation. Okay?
14 A Uh-huh.
15 Q Yes?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Will you state your full name for the
18 record, please?
19 A Ronald Wayne McKinney.
20 Q And, Mr. McKinney, tell me your present
21 address.
22 A 4083 Red, as in color, Laurel Way. That's
23 in Snellville, Georgia 30039.
24 Q And how long have you lived at that
25 address?
GUNTHER REPORTING
6
1 A Since 1987.
2 Q Okay. Who lives there with you at the
3 present time?
4 A My wife and mother.
5 Q What is your mother's name?
6 A Lois, L-o-i-s, L. McKinney.
7 Q And what is your wife's name?
8 A Robyn, R-o-b-y-n, McKinney.
9 Q And these individuals, did they live there
10 at the time of the work that was performed by the
11 Plaintiff which is the subject matter of this case?
12 A Yes, ma'am.
13 Q Okay. Did anybody else live there at that
14 time?
15 A No, ma'am.
16 Q Okay. And you said you've lived there
17 since 1987?
18 A That's correct.
19 Q Are you originally from the Atlanta area?
20 A No.
21 Q Where are you originally from?
22 A Everywhere. My father was in the air
23 force.
24 Q Okay. All right. How long have you lived
25 in the Atlanta area?
GUNTHER REPORTING
7
1 A Since 1981.
2 Q Okay. All right. And do you have any
3 children?
4 A I have -- I have three.
5 Q Do any of them live in Gwinnett County?
6 A I had three. I'll put it that way.
7 Q All right. Do any of your children live in
8 Gwinnett County?
9 A No.
10 Q Do you have any relatives other than your
11 mother and your wife who live in Gwinnett County?
12 A No.
13 Q I asked you earlier had you ever given a
14 deposition before, and you said no; is that correct?
15 A That's correct.
16 Q Have you ever been involved in any other
17 lawsuits before?
18 A No.
19 Q All right. I believe somewhere I saw that
20 you are a retired electrical engineer; is that
21 correct?
22 A That's correct.
23 Q All right. Can you tell me a little bit
24 about your educational background, how far you went
25 in school and what degrees you've --
GUNTHER REPORTING
8
1 A That would be a double E from Auburn
2 University.
3 Q And when did you obtain that degree?
4 A 1978.
5 Q Do you have any other degrees?
6 A No.
7 Q Are you retired at this time?
8 A I'm a full-time caregiver for my mother.
9 Q So you do not work outside the home?
10 A No, ma'am.
11 Q When is the last time that you worked
12 outside the home?
13 A 1994.
14 Q And your wife, did she work outside the
15 home either?
16 A No.
17 Q Do you have any business that you conduct
18 out of your home?
19 A No.
20 Q When you say full-time caregiver, that's
21 for your mother?
22 A That's correct.
23 Q All right. Tell me a little about what
24 kind of work you did historically as an electrical
25 engineer. What kind of work did you do?
GUNTHER REPORTING
9
1 A I'm a hardware designer.
2 Q Just explain to me a little bit about what
3 that is.
4 A Everything that's inside that little box
5 right there.
6 Q You are indicating the computer?
7 A That's correct.
8 Q Did you work on computers? Is that the
9 type of machinery you worked on?
10 A Yes, ma'am.
11 Q What is the last company that you worked
12 for?
13 A A company called Tel-Data Computer Systems
14 here in Atlanta.
15 Q What was your position there?
16 A Chief engineer.
17 Q And how long did you work there?
18 A Eight years.
19 Q All right. Prior to the work that was
20 performed on the home by the Plaintiff, have you ever
21 had any opportunity in the past to be involved in any
22 sort of construction or rehab on your home?
23 A No.
24 Q Have you ever had any opportunity to be
25 involved in any --
GUNTHER REPORTING
10
1 A First of all, it's not my home.
2 Q Okay. All right. Well, why don't you tell
3 me --
4 A It's my residence.
5 Q All right. What's the difference?
6 A Well, one, somebody owns it; and the other
7 one, they don't.
8 Q Okay. Do you own your residence?
9 A No.
10 Q All right. Who is the owner of that
11 residence?
12 A It on public record.
13 Q Okay. Well, who is the owner?
14 A It's 3-F Foundation.
15 Q 3-F Foundation, tell me what that is.
16 A You'll have to check with them on that.
17 Q You don't know who owns your home?
18 A As far as inquiring into their business and
19 who they are and all that stuff, I'm not authorized
20 to speak about that. You'll have to talk to them.
21 Q Did you ever at any time hold the deed to
22 your home?
23 A No.
24 Q All right. And so that deed has been held
25 by 3-F Corporation since 1987?
GUNTHER REPORTING
11
1 A It's 1997 I believe. It's public record.
2 Whatever the record says. I can't remember.
3 Q All right. But you said you've lived there
4 since 1987?
5 A That's right.
6 Q And who owned the home from 1987 to 1997?
7 A I'm not real sure.
8 Q You are not sure who owns your home?
9 A I mean it's not my business. Okay.
10 Q It's not your business to know who owns the
11 residence you live in?
12 A What can I tell you? I know one thing. I
13 know one thing, I don't own it.
14 Q You understand you are under oath?
15 A I understand I'm under oath, but I also
16 understand that I don't have to answer questions that
17 have to do with other people's business.
18 Q I'm not asking about other people's
19 business.
20 A Well, actually you are.
21 Q I made a simple statement that it was your
22 home. You have injected into the record the fact
23 that it's your residence that belongs to someone
24 else. You brought it up, and now I'm only trying to
25 understand why you are trying to make that
GUNTHER REPORTING
12
1 distinction.
2 A Well, it's not something that I own. It's
3 my residence. That's all I need to say about that.
4 Q All right. How did you first become aware
5 of a company called Insulated Wall Systems?
6 A A postcard.
7 Q And where did you get the postcard?
8 A Through the mail.
9 Q When you got the postcard what, if anything
10 did you do?
11 A If you'll notice on the copy, there's a day
12 and a time, Thursday at 6:30 I believe it is. Is
13 that what it says?
14 Q Okay.
15 A And I called the number that was on there.
16 Q And so I assume you made an appointment?
17 A That's correct. I think I talked to a Mack
18 Hilton originally, and he said Mr. Tabor here would
19 call me back.
20 Q Okay. At the time you made that call after
21 getting that postcard, tell me what kind of work you
22 were looking to have done.
23 A Siding, windows, a deck, and a slab.
24 Q Prior to making that phone call to
25 Insulated Wall Systems, had you talked to anybody
GUNTHER REPORTING
13
1 else about doing that type of work on your home?
2 A Yes, ma'am.
3 Q All right. Had anybody come out and given
4 you any estimates?
5 A Yes, ma'am.
6 Q Okay. All right. Do you remember the
7 names of any of those folks who had done that?
8 A The individuals?
9 Q Or the companies.
10 A Home Depot.
11 Q Okay.
12 A Sears, RJD. It's called -- well, I guess
13 it's RJD Siding I guess. It's out there in Conyers.
14 Q All right.
15 A And Mr. Tabor.
16 Q Okay. And the other three companies that
17 you named, was that relatively in the same time
18 period?
19 A Yes, ma'am. It was within four or five
20 days.
21 Q All right. And when was this when you got
22 this? I should ask you when you got this postcard.
23 Do you remember what year or what time of year it
24 was?
25 A July 2004. The contract was signed
GUNTHER REPORTING
14
1 August 23rd. It was July -- I think the end of July,
2 somewhere around that.
3 Q So the summertime 2004?
4 A Yes, ma'am.
5 Q All right, sir. After somebody came out on
6 behalf of Insulated Wall Systems, did you have
7 anybody else come out to give you an estimate at that
8 time?
9 A I don't understand the question.
10 Q Okay. You told me you had three companies
11 that had already visited you to give you an estimate
12 about some work, and then you called Insulated Wall
13 Systems and somebody came out. I'm just asking:
14 after an Insulated Wall Systems representative came
15 out, did you have anybody else come out?
16 A No, he was the last one, if that's what you
17 are asking.
18 Q Yes, that's what I'm asking.
19 All right. So was it Mr. Tabor who came to
20 see you?
21 A Yes, ma'am.
22 Q All right. And that meeting was in your
23 home?
24 A Yes, ma'am.
25 Q Your residence I should say. Okay.
GUNTHER REPORTING
15
1 A I mean home doesn't imply ownership.
2 Q All right. Who was present when Mr. Tabor
3 came to see you that first time?
4 A Me and Robyn and Mr. Tabor and my mother. (DOOR SOUND, JOHN TABOR ENTERED OR LEFT, HARASSING ROBYN AGAIN)
5 Q Your mom was there too?
6 A She wasn't at the table listening. She's
7 94-years-old. She requires constant care; and that's
8 part of what I object to here, is having to be away
9 from her during this time. I'm shocked that you
10 would not understand that, but apparently civil
11 procedure trumps civil behavior.
12 Q I move to strike the last colloquy from the
13 record. It's nonresponsive.
14 A I can reserve the right to read this
15 transcript; is that correct?
16 Q Okay. I'm glad you brought that up.
17 Mr. McKinney, you do, as any witness. Let me go
18 ahead and tell you I cannot advise you legally, but I
19 can tell you this: that as you can see, the court
20 reporter takes down every word that is said here.
21 A That's correct.
22 Q Okay. You have the opportunity once she
23 transcribes that into written form to go ahead and
24 what we call read the document and sign it.
25 A I also can make changes on it?
GUNTHER REPORTING
16
1 Q You cannot change the testimony, but you (BUT SOMEONE CAN AND DID)
2 can look at the transcript to assure that she has not
3 made an error in the way that it was transcribed.
4 A Okay. My understanding is that I can
5 clarify the answers as well.
6 Q If you feel there needs to be a
7 clarification, you have an addenda; and you can do
8 that.
9 A Okay.
10 Q Okay. And we'll just go ahead and take
11 care of that. I'm assuming at this time you're going
12 to reserve the right to read and sign. Is that what
13 you are saying?
14 A Yes, ma'am. In fact, I reserve all my
15 rights. I don't waive any objections or anything
16 else.
17 Q All right.
18 A And although I'm not even sure which ones
19 I'm not supposed to waive, but I'll make a blanket
20 waiver of all objections.
21 Q All right.
22 A I will make a -- I'll take that back. I
23 will not waive any objections whatsoever.
24 Q Okay. At the first meeting you had with
25 Mr. Tabor, just tell me what you basically remember
GUNTHER REPORTING
17
1 about it, if you remember anything.
2 A Well, let me set the stage I guess is
3 probably the best way. Robyn, my wife, has worked
4 for Home Depot for five years. Not now, but she had.
5 She was a kitchen designer. She designs kitchens for
6 people, high-end kitchens. She works with
7 installers. She knows the business. She knows the
8 work, that kind of work. She was in charge of the
9 work, and she was also in charge of deciding what she
10 wanted for the house.
11 My role in the work is kind of a step-back
12 role. In fact, I read an article the other day that
13 says 60 percent of all married couples, the wife
14 handles the work.
15 Q Okay.
16 A So it was most appropriate for her to
17 handle it so she gets what she wants. It was also
18 most appropriate for her to deal with the work,
19 because she was experienced in dealing with
20 contractors and dealing with installers and that sort
21 of thing. So I let her lead the show. Basically it
22 started with, you know, the salesman. We told him we (ARE GENERALLY SIMILAR)
23 wanted siding and windows. I don't think the slab
24 was mentioned at that point in time, but we did
25 mention the deck.
GUNTHER REPORTING
18
1 Q Okay.
2 A And he told us, Mr. Tabor, presented us
3 with a brochure of a Series 60 window. Argon gas was
4 the standard. You know, I can't remember all the
5 little details. Argon gas, low heat. We wanted the
6 energy star rating, replacement windows, new siding.
7 He went through the different areas of siding. Let's
8 see what else.
9 Oh, yeah. We went outside. We went
10 through the whole deck and how it was going to be,
11 you know, where she wanted it, the size and the
12 stairs, you know, that sort of thing; and that was
13 pretty much it for that first meeting.
14 Q So you think that they didn't really talk
15 about the slab?
16 A No, ma'am.
17 Q Okay.
18 A The slab was brought up on the second
19 meeting.
20 Q Okay. Let me ask you this just so --
21 obviously I wasn't there. You had a deck on your
22 house already; is that correct?
23 A That's correct.
24 Q All right. It just needed to be replaced?
25 A That's correct. Well, it was more than
GUNTHER REPORTING
19
1 that that was wanted.
2 Q I know. Just that's, that's what I'm
3 asking. Let me ask you this: when you got the home
4 in 1987, was it new?
5 A No.
6 Q Was that deck that you were looking to
7 replace, was that on the home in 1987?
8 A Yes, ma'am.
9 Q All right. Was there any slab, patio-type
10 thing out there already?
11 A No, ma'am.
12 Q All right. You said at the first meeting
13 you had a discussion about wanting argon gas and
14 energy ratings and all. Had you done any sort of
15 research, we'll call it, into the type of replacement
16 windows you wanted prior?
17 A That's when we started to research, maybe
18 about a week prior. We had looked at the windows
19 that the other people had brought out. I went on
20 line and looked on argon gas. I looked at low heat (LOW-E)
21 and energy star rating and how that would improve the
22 dogs barking. That was the big thing. The dogs
23 barking, soundproofing, energy savings, you know, all
24 these things.
25 Q All right. At the first meeting you didn't
GUNTHER REPORTING
20
1 reach any agreement about doing the work, did you?
2 A No, ma'am.
3 Q All right. At the first meeting was there
4 any discussion on the part of Mr. Tabor as to cost?
5 A I believe there was, if you'll flip the
6 card right there.
7 Q Okay. Let me go ahead -- I've got several
8 documents I would like to go through here today; and
9 just because you have never done this, let me tell
10 you how this is going to work. I'm going to have a
11 copy and you're going to have a copy. I'm going to
12 hand a copy to the court reporter and have her mark
13 it as an exhibit, and then you will have an
14 opportunity to look at the documents as much as you
15 want and tell me when you are ready, and then we'll
16 talk about --
17 A Do you have the originals? I mean I don't
18 know if these have been altered or not.
19 Q Well, let's see. No, we don't have the
20 originals, because as you can tell --
21 A I've got the originals on that. Okay.
22 Q Okay. All right. And if at any time you
23 see something that you think something is different
24 about it, please let me know; but I believe most of
25 these documents came from you. All right. Let me go
GUNTHER REPORTING
21
1 ahead and have her mark what I'm going to call
2 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 1.
3 (Whereupon the document was
marked for identification as
4 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 1.)
5 (Mr. Tabor is no longer present
at the deposition.)
(JOHN TABOR WAS THERE ALL DAY GOING IN AND OUT OF THE DEPOSITION ROOM HARASSING ROBYN MCKINNEY EACH TIME, THE DOOR MADE A SOUND ON THE RECORDING EACH TIME HE WENT IN AND OUT)
6
7 BY MS. TABOR:
8 Q All right. I'm going to give you an
9 opportunity to look at that. When you're ready, tell
10 me and we'll talk about it.
11 A Okay. Let me say this right up front, that
12 this has been a combined effort between me and my
13 wife.
14 Q Okay.
15 A Okay. And there are certain aspects she
16 handled more, more of the pricing, more of the work.
17 Things that I directly testify to is the only things
18 that I want to testify to.
19 Q Well, exactly. That's what we want to do.
20 A However, I will testify to things that she
21 told me, not necessarily what somebody else says. I
22 understand they call that hearsay or something like
23 that.
24 Q Well, let me just tell you --
25 A But I can testify to what she has said too.
GUNTHER REPORTING
22
1 Q In this proceeding you can testify to what
2 you know, whatever source you know it from, who told
3 you, whatever; but you don't have to worry about the
4 rules of this concerning hearsay. All right?
5 A Okay.
6 Q I'm looking for what you know and --
7 A That's fair.
8 Q -- the emphasis is on you; and to the
9 extent you feel that there is something about this
10 project that your wife knows about, please let me
11 know so that when we have an opportunity to talk to
12 her, we'll make sure we go over those areas with her.
13 A There was another area, and let me just
14 state this.
15 Q Okay.
16 A The time frame between June of last year
17 and November/December time frame where I was out of
18 it, literally.
19 Q Okay. Well, when we get to that point,
20 we're going to try to go chronologically. You can
21 let me know about that. All right?
22 A Uh-huh (affirmative).
23 Q All right. Now, can you tell us, sir, what
24 is this document that we have now identified for the
25 record as Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 1?
GUNTHER REPORTING
23
1 A This is Mr. Tabor's business card.
2 Q All right. And are there some markings on
3 that card?
4 A Yes, ma'am. I believe it's his writing.
5 Q Okay.
6 A The original thing that we did was the
7 siding, windows, deck, and gutters. Yes, and that's
8 the 14 -- whatever adds up to 14,850. That was the
9 original price.
10 Q All right. Now, let me ask you this, and
11 this is really not a major point; but you told me you
12 didn't talk about the slab the first time. So do you
13 think you guys -- and it talks about a slab on this
14 card. Do you think you got this card in your first
15 meeting or the second meeting?
16 A My recollection is that the 14,850, and
17 this list was done on the first or maybe the second
18 meeting, because I'm pretty sure he didn't give these
19 prices on the first meeting.
20 Q Okay. Well, let me just tell you this.
21 A There were three meetings; and, you know,
22 the problem with memory is that it all rolled
23 together and which occurred on which meeting, and,
24 you know, it's difficult to say. Either way, he
25 wrote the initial items which added up to 14,850.
GUNTHER REPORTING
24
1 Q Okay. Well, that's fine. Let me ask you
2 this.
3 A And then at a later meeting the slab and
4 the 5 x 5 deck was added.
5 Q Okay. Well, let me ask you a question with
6 regard to this exhibit. The numbers that you see
7 beside the individual areas of work, are those the
8 numbers that you understand came to be attached as a
9 value with regard to the sales price to that
10 particular area of work; in other words, the siding
11 was going to be $7,000. The windows were going to be
12 $3900?
13 A Yes, ma'am.
14 Q Okay. All right.
15 A Yeah. We had him specifically break it
16 out.
17 Q Okay. All right. And as far as you are
18 concerned, the numbers that are on the card here are
19 the numbers that add up to 14,850?
20 A Well, no. You need to understand.
21 Q That's 14,850, and then you added the slab?
22 A Right.
23 Q Okay. So we end up with --
24 A The slab and the small deck I believe.
25 Q Okay. That's on the front of the house?
GUNTHER REPORTING
25
1 Is that what that is?
2 A Yes. That's the 5 x 5 deck on the front of
3 the house.
4 Q Okay. All right. So ultimately the
5 price --
6 A That was for my mother.
7 Q -- was 16,000; is that correct?
8 A The original price was $16,850.
9 Q Okay. All right. Well, probably the best
10 thing for right now is to go ahead and mark that as
11 Plaintiff's 2.
12 A Do I give you this back?
13 Q Yeah, if you will. We'll make a pile over
14 here. That goes to the court reporter.
15 (Whereupon the document was
marked for identification as
16 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 2.)
17 BY MS. TABOR:
18 Q Are you ready?
19 A I'm waiting on you.
20 Q Oh, okay. I'm sorry. All right. Let me
21 ask you what the document you've been handed
22 identified as Plaintiff's Exhibit 2, can you tell me
23 what that document is?
24 A Do you have the original? There is
25 something different about this one. I can tell you
GUNTHER REPORTING
26
1 that right now. Oh. That's it. It didn't copy.
2 Okay. I'm going to hand you this one back and look
3 at this one. Insulated Wall Systems, Incorporated,
4 is gone from it.
5 Q Okay. Other than the fact that the top of
6 the page --
7 A Didn't get copied.
8 Q With regard to the body of the document
9 itself, and maybe what you should do, because I'm not
10 going to put the original one attached to your
11 deposition, can you look at this and see if that's a
12 copy, other than I realize that that has not copied
13 on the top. Is that the same document?
14 A I'm going to object to it, because I would
15 have to study everything; and with that gone, I'm not
16 sure. I mean it appears to me as if it is.
17 Q Okay. It appears to you. All right.
18 A Okay. But I will withhold judgment if it
19 comes back to haunt me.
20 Q All right. So subject to that, what has
21 been identified as Plaintiff's Exhibit 2, can you
22 tell me what that document is?
23 A Excuse me?
24 Q Can you tell me what you've got in front of
25 you there?
GUNTHER REPORTING
27
1 A I believe this is the contract.
2 Q That's the contract between Insulated Wall
3 Systems and you; is that correct?
4 A That's correct.
5 Q Okay. And Plaintiff's Exhibit 2, you
6 signed that document, correct?
7 A That is my signature.
8 Q Is it fair to say that that document
9 outlines all of the work that was performed by the
10 Plaintiff on your residence?
11 A I will answer it this way: it outlines that
12 work which was to be done.
13 Q Okay.
14 A It does not outline the work that was
15 actually done.
16 Q Okay. All right. Let me ask you this: in
17 your initial conversations with Mr. Tabor, was there
18 any discussion about who -- well, strike that.
19 Did Mr. Tabor indicate to you that he
20 generally was not in the business of building decks?
21 A No, ma'am.
22 Q Did he ever tell you he was not in the
23 business of putting in slabs?
24 A No, ma'am.
25 Q All right. Were there any discussions with
GUNTHER REPORTING
28
1 Mr. Tabor in those initial meetings about trying to
2 keep the cost low on those --
3 A No, ma'am.
4 Q All right. Let me finish the question --
5 those two facets of work?
6 A No, ma'am. There was never any discussion
7 like that.
8 Q Okay.
9 A He was free to, and they were all given the
10 freedom, to give me your quote.
11 Q Okay.
12 A No. In fact, there was the opposite.
13 There was a professionalism. I can do this. I've
14 done this for what? 13 years I think at the time.
15 Q Okay. I just want to clarify a point. The
16 other folks that had come out to see prior to that, (I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY)
17 Home Depot and Sears and I think you said RJD, did
18 you have discussions with them about the windows too?
19 Were they looking to put in windows for you?
20 A Yes, ma'am.
21 Q All right. And did Mr. Tabor ever show you
22 a model of the window prior to the work being done?
23 A Yes, ma'am. He initially brought in a
24 Series 60 window.
25 Q Did you have any discussions with him at
GUNTHER REPORTING
29
1 all about the Series 40 window?
2 A That was later on.
3 Q Okay. All right. So let me ask you this:
4 You said you thought you had three meetings with him
5 prior to work starting I guess? I'm trying to
6 understand.
7 A Yeah. The second meeting I think he came
8 back to do some measurements and give us the price.
9 Q Okay.
10 A And that's when we were outside looking at
11 the various things that were to be done, and that's
12 when I brought up the slab.
13 Q Okay. And what, if any, discussion do you
14 recall having with him about the slab?
15 A I told him -- well, we both told him.
16 Robyn and I told him we wanted a slab back here. We
17 wanted it this wide and this far out from the house,
18 and we definitely told him the function.
19 Q What was that function?
20 A A screen porch with a Jacuzzi on it.
21 Q Okay. Fine. The third time he came prior
22 to work, what happened basically at that meeting?
23 A Prior to that he called us and told us, or
24 told Robyn and she came to me and told me, that there
25 had been some change in the window, that the Series
GUNTHER REPORTING
30
1 40 had been upgraded and was replacing the Series 60;
2 and that sounded like bait and switch. I didn't
3 know, but that's what it sounded like; and then it
4 was, Well, what do we do with this?
5 So what we decided was for him to bring a
6 window. Let us look at it. So he brought that
7 window. Sure enough, some of the features of the
8 Series 60 it had; in other words, I think one of them
9 was the handle, you know, that you lift up on the
10 window. On the Series 60 it was down below. On the
11 Series 40 brochure that we had, I think it was up
12 there. Now, don't quote me on this. I can't
13 remember exactly what the feature differences were.
14 Q You're talking about like something you
15 would put your hand up under to lift the window up?
16 A Yes, ma'am.
17 Q Okay. So you think he came back and first
18 he showed you the 60 window; and now he's come back
19 and he's shown you a 40 model?
20 A Well, he said the 40 had been upgraded and
21 changed.
22 Q All right. And how had the upgrade
23 changed?
24 A In the sense that the 40 was replacing the
25 60.
GUNTHER REPORTING
31
1 Q So now --
2 A Now the 60 was going to go away.
3 Q The 60 was going to go away and the 40 was
4 going to replace it. Okay. You had seen the 60?
5 A Yes, ma'am.
6 Q And now you are telling me visually you
7 noticed at least one difference in the 40?
8 A Yeah. My wife was involved with it a lot
9 more. So she noticed a few other features.
10 Q All right.
11 A But what I heard him indicate was that the
12 internal features had changed and been upgraded to
13 the Series 60 and they were just going to have two
14 sets of windows, the 40 and the 80 if I understand
15 correctly.
16 Q All right. And this is after you had
17 gotten the quote of 3900 for the windows?
18 A Yes, ma'am.
19 Q All right. Was there --
20 A Now, wait a minute. Let's see.
21 Q According to the card that's been marked
22 Plaintiff's Exhibit 1?
23 A Okay. It was 3900. We actually added a
24 window, which brought it up -- yeah, there's
25 something missing here from the original. Yes.
GUNTHER REPORTING
32
1 Q All right. As you can see from what you
2 produced to me, I don't have this card. This is all
3 I have.
4 A I'd have to double-check that.
5 Q Okay.
6 A But what we did is added another window,
7 the thirteenth window, which brought it up to 4250,
8 $350 more for that additional window.
9 Q So when he came back with the second set of
10 windows, was there anything special about any -- my
11 question was really was there going to be any price
12 change?
13 A No. It was 4250.
14 Q Okay.
15 A If -- and we asked him this carte blanche, (POINT BLANK)
16 you know, is this the same window as the Series 60?
17 Yes, sir, it is. Yes, ma'am, it is.
18 Q All right. And this third meeting you are
19 talking about your wife was there too, correct?
20 A Yes, ma'am.
21 Q All right.
22 A There was the meeting that we signed the
23 contract.
24 Q Okay. That was going to be my next
25 question. Other than the presentation of this new
GUNTHER REPORTING
33
1 Series 40 window, was there anything else done? You
2 are saying that's the day that he signed the
3 contract; is that correct?
4 A August 23rd is the date on the contract I
5 believe. The 23rd of August, yes, ma'am.
6 Q And that contract, if you'll look on page
7 one, I think in the handwritten part you would agree
8 that it indicates that you are going to get the model
9 40 vinyl replacement windows; is that correct?
10 A Yes, ma'am. He'd said already though that (WITH THE SETUP)
11 it would have the same features as the Series 60.
12 There was no doubt about that. We were believing him
13 on what he said.
14 Q Okay. But the contract itself is for the
15 model 40?
16 A I understand that.
17 Q All right. That's all I'm trying to -- I'm
18 just trying to make sure we are in agreement for
19 that.
20 And there's 13 windows indicated that were
21 installed, correct?
22 A Installed incorrectly, but yes.
23 Q Okay. All right.
24 A Or to be installed.
25 Q Move to strike to the extent it's not
GUNTHER REPORTING
34
1 responsive.
2 There's 13 windows to be installed?
3 A To be installed, that's correct.
4 Q All right. Okay. Still on page one in the
5 handwritten part down in the last little paragraph
6 there it says, All windows white with half screens
7 and grids on front windows only with low-e glazing
8 and argon gas. No work to inside walls on windows
9 that are being reframed.
10 Would you agree with me that the contract
11 specifically states that to the extent there's any
12 work to be done inside the home with regard to the
13 installation of these windows, that Insulated Wall
14 Systems will not be doing that?
15 A That's not what we were told.
16 Q Okay. That's not my question.
17 A Okay.
18 Q My question is: would you agree with me
19 that the contract itself says no work to inside walls
20 on windows that are being reframed?
21 A In an attempt to be as responsive as I can,
22 one must understand what we were told would be the
23 way the inside Sheetrock would look, which was the
24 smooth edges. If you are asking me just simply what
25 the contract says, yes, ma'am.
GUNTHER REPORTING
35
1 Q That's exactly what I'm asking you. I'm
2 asking you what the contract says.
3 A Well, I think it's unfair to tell us to --
4 Q All right. I move to strike as being
5 nonresponsive. I'm going to ask you one more time,
6 sir. Would you agree with me that the contract
7 states no work to inside walls on windows that are
8 being reframed?
9 A Yes, ma'am.
10 Q Okay.
11 A But I will lodge an objection to that,
12 because it doesn't tell the whole story. There's the
13 contract, yes, ma'am. I understand that, but there's
14 also an agreement.
15 Q Sir, would you also agree with me that on
16 the bottom of page one --
17 A Yes, ma'am, there was a verbal agreement.
18 We are not talking about agreements. We are talking
19 about what I was told would happen.
20 Q Okay. Page two of the contract, if you
21 would, turn there, please. The first paragraph it
22 would appear to me to deal with the installation of
23 the vinyl siding. Would you agree with me?
24 A Install Royal woodland 16, yes, ma'am.
25 Q The work that was to be performed?
GUNTHER REPORTING
36
1 A To be performed, that's correct.
2 Q Okay. The next issue on that page deals
3 with the gutters, correct?
4 A Well, no, ma'am. There's shutters, vinyl
5 shutters. It's the next one down, and then there is
6 seamless aluminum gutters.
7 Q All right. With regard to the vinyl
8 siding, would you agree that 16 inch vinyl siding was
9 installed over one quarter inch foam board?
10 A Yes, ma'am.
11 Q Would you agree that 5 inch seamless
12 aluminum gutters and 3 x 4 downspouts were installed
13 on the home?
14 A With both of these questions I would like
15 for you to define the word install.
16 Q It takes on its common and ordinary
17 meaning, but --
18 A Well, generally speaking, ma'am, install
19 means properly installed, installed according to
20 industry standards. You know, obviously someone can
21 slap it up. Obviously someone can think about what
22 they are doing.
23 Q All right. Mr. McKinney, my question is:
24 there are 5 inch seamless aluminum gutters and 3 x 4
25 downspouts attached to your home?
GUNTHER REPORTING
37
1 A After three efforts, yes, ma'am.
2 Q Okay. Going on down it says, Install
3 Greenguard plastic housewrap over quarter inch foam
4 insulating taped at seams.
5 Was Greenguard plastic housewrap attached
6 to your house?
7 A Would you -- I'm going to have to ask you
8 to read the entire line, because it was not.
9 Q Sir, I ask the questions as I see fit.
10 Now --
11 A Well, I object to that question because --
12 Q Well, you can object to the question,
13 but --
14 A -- because the housewrap is there. The
15 seams are not taped.
16 Q Okay. Well, all right. That's fine. But
17 the housewrap is there?
18 A The seams are not taped.
19 Q Is there quarter inch foam board there?
20 A Yes, ma'am.
21 Q Okay.
22 A In a lot more places than it's supposed to
23 be.
24 Q Okay. The next paragraph says, Remove deck
25 on back of house and dispose of. Was that done?
GUNTHER REPORTING
38
1 A Yes, ma'am.
2 Q Okay. Then rebuild new deck, approximate
3 dimension of 10 foot floor joists and 20 foot wide
4 with 3 foot x 3 foot platform for stairs -- I hate to
5 make this a long question, but I guess I'm going to
6 have to -- dropping halfway to second 3 foot x 3 foot
7 platform, 2 inch x 2 inch pickets, and 4 inch x 4
8 inch posts on corners and to steps.
9 Okay. Was that construction attached to
10 your house?
11 A Loosely defined, yes, ma'am.
12 Q Okay. The third page, Build wood deck
13 approximately 5 foot wide by 5 foot deep from front
14 door with one step and rails.
15 Was that work attached to your house?
16 A No, ma'am, it's not actually attached to
17 the house.
18 Q Okay. Is it present by the front door?
19 A Yes, ma'am.
20 Q Okay. Next it says, Pour slab on back of
21 house approximately 14 feet deep, away from house,
22 and approximately 19 feet wide, smooth finish,
23 customer to remove shrubs first.
24 Is there a slab now behind your house
25 approximately 14 feet deep away from the house and
GUNTHER REPORTING
39
1 19 feet wide?
2 A And a smooth finish.
3 Q I didn't ask that question.
4 A Well, I'm not sure how you -- I must object
5 because reading part of the question doesn't seem to
6 be fair to me; but, yes, ma'am. You have seen the
7 concrete slab. It's back there, but it definitely
8 does not have a smooth surface.
9 Q Okay. Now, with regard to the elements of
10 construction that are supposed to be contained within
11 this contract, you did not receive two pairs of vinyl
12 shutters; is that correct?
13 A No.
14 Q Okay. And I'm not talking about your
15 belief as to the quality of work, but as to the
16 actual items that were supposed to be installed on
17 your home. Other than those two pairs of shutters,
18 what in this contract did you not receive other than
19 that?
20 A Argon gas for the windows.
21 Q Okay. Anything else?
22 A Seams taped, smooth finish, and the
23 shutters.
24 Q How long after you signed this contract did
25 someone come out to start the work?
GUNTHER REPORTING
40
1 A Let's see. I think the windows arrived
2 somewhere at the end of September, the last week in
3 September.
4 Q Okay. I'm going to mark this document as
5 Plaintiff's Exhibit 3.
6 (Whereupon the document was
marked for identification as
7 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 3.)
8 THE WITNESS: Now, this original you should
9 have.
10 BY MS. TABOR:
11 Q Take a look at the copy that I've given
12 you.
13 A It appears as if this is one, but I will
14 object because it isn't -- I know this isn't the
15 original, but we can work off this.
16 Q Okay. All right.
17 A With my noted objection.
18 Q At any time you see any document that you
19 think does not reflect what you stated, let me know.
20 All right? I'm not here to try to trick you. I'm
21 just trying to get information. All right?
22 A When your husband tells me to shut up,
23 ma'am, I tell you, that is a little --
24 Q I cannot --
25 A -- that's a little bit much.
GUNTHER REPORTING
41
1 Q I cannot control my husband.
2 A I understand that.
3 Q Okay.
4 A But it is a family affair.
5 Q I move to strike as nonresponsive.
6 Okay. Mr. McKinney, can you identify for
7 me and the record what has now been marked as
8 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 3?
9 A It appears, and I'm not absolutely
10 convinced, but it appears as if it's the letter I
11 wrote to Mr. Tabor on December 20th, 2004.
12 Q And what prompted you to write this letter?
13 A The work was not completed. The work had
14 problems.
15 Q Would it be fair to say at the time you
16 wrote the letter you expressed therein all of the
17 problems that you saw with the work?
18 A I'm sorry?
19 Q Would it be fair to say that at the time
20 you wrote this letter on December 20th, or it's dated
21 December 20, 2004, to Mr. Tabor, that you expressed
22 in that letter all of the problems as you saw them
23 with the work?
24 A The letter expresses what I knew at the
25 time.
GUNTHER REPORTING
42
1 Q Okay. All right.
2 A And I really can't say if it expressed
3 everything that I knew. We had just had an emotional
4 moment there five days earlier.
5 Q Okay. All right. Well, we'll go back to
6 that; but let me ask you a question. In this second
7 paragraph under the word slab there it says, The slab
8 has been determined to have been poured on
9 uncompacted soil by a qualified house inspector. Who
10 is that house inspector?
11 A Originally the person who came and looked
12 at it was a friend of ours, and I think you have his
13 name on our witness list. James -- well, shoot. I
14 can't remember his last name now. Crisp, James
15 Crisp.
16 Q Crisp, C-r-i --
17 A C-r-i-s-p.
18 Q And this is a family friend?
19 A Yes, ma'am.
20 Q All right. But he's also a home inspector?
21 A He's been a builder for 25, 30 years.
22 Q Okay. So he's a builder; he's not an
23 inspector?
24 A Well, he is an inspector now.
25 Q Okay. All right. Was he an inspector back
GUNTHER REPORTING
43
1 on December 20th, 2004?
2 A Yes, ma'am.
3 Q All right. This is probably a good time to
4 ask you since obviously I was not present at any of
5 these transactions you had with the Plaintiff. You
6 said something had happened five days earlier on.
7 I'm assuming approximately December 15th. Can you
8 tell me what you are referring to?
9 A Let's -- could we -- I know you want me to
10 answer your question, but I think a setup is
11 appropriate here to go back and look at what I was
12 told what the contract says about the quality.
13 Q No, I want you to tell me what happened
14 five days earlier.
15 A Okay. Mr. Tabor appeared in my yard with a
16 cellphone stuck in his ear. That's what I remember.
17 Q Okay. I'm sorry. I don't want to
18 interrupt you, but let me ask you this: five days
19 earlier had the siding on the house been completed?
20 A It was on the house.
21 Q Okay. What about the gutters? Had they
22 been put up on the house?
23 A I believe they were on the house.
24 Q What about the deck?
25 A Yes, ma'am.
GUNTHER REPORTING
44
1 Q All right. How about the front stoop we'll
2 call it?
3 A Yes, ma'am.
4 Q How about the slab?
5 A Yes, ma'am.
6 Q Okay. And the windows?
7 A Yes, ma'am.
8 Q Okay. All right. So what happened now?
9 Go back and tell me. You see Mr. Tabor in your yard
10 five days later on December 15.
11 A And that was when we were supposed to have
12 a walk-through --
13 Q All right.
14 A -- a walk-through to verify that everything
15 was done according to the contract and per the
16 contract.
17 Q Okay.
18 A He told me that -- well, this is earlier.
19 This is why I wanted to go back, because I need to
20 give you the proper setup as to why he was there,
21 that, you know, I didn't have to pay until I'm
22 satisfied that the work was completed in accordance
23 with the contract.
24 Q Okay.
25 A He went on to say that there would be a
GUNTHER REPORTING
45
1 walk-through and that there would be a sign-off sheet
2 and that we would list all the things that the
3 contract called for; and if anything was not done, he
4 would take care of it. We would then go and look at
5 the work, and any problems with the work he would
6 fix.
7 Q Okay.
8 A Okay. Fair enough. We had -- I had asked
9 Robyn -- we had already determined some things back
10 in November, the end of November that there were some
11 problems with, serious problems with the work,
12 serious problems with both the deck, the slab. The
13 windows didn't have argon gas. We had determined
14 that. No shutters obviously, and she had called him
15 sometime at the end of November and told him that we
16 had serious problems with the work; and we didn't
17 hear anything from him for four to five days. We (45 DAYS)
18 didn't know what was going on.
19 Q Okay. You just told me she called the end (HOLD ON)
20 of November, but --
21 A No. I'm sorry. The first of November.
22 Q Okay. But he shows up on the 15th?
23 A The 15th, yes. So it was about
24 November 4th, 5th, somewhere in there. I can't
25 remember exactly, but anyway four or five days (45 DAYS)
GUNTHER REPORTING
46
1 passed. We had no earthly idea what was going on.
2 He appears. I go outside and bring him back in, and
3 he starts talking. We asked him how he's doing.
4 What is going on?
5 And he starts talking about you, to say
6 that you had had some sort of surgery; and we
7 expressed our sympathies, you know, we told him we
8 were real sorry about that; and, you know, would he
9 like to do the walk-through. Sure enough.
10 Okay. So we all go outside and we point to
11 the slab and tell him basically what the home
12 inspector tells me. This is going to break. I do
13 remember him saying he had never heard of compact
14 soil being -- and then I thought, oh, God. Then we
15 went over to the deck.
16 Now, all this time Robyn is talking to him
17 and discussing the problems. I'm standing off. And
18 suddenly things got heated, you know, we talked about
19 we've got this whole side of the deck is supported by
20 16 nails that are nailed into rotten wood. It had
21 already been discussed by Mr. Payne and Mr. Tabor,
22 that there was going to be support there. Okay.
23 Q Okay.
24 A Now, whoever heard of nailing into rotten
25 wood. That's not going to hold anything. He made
GUNTHER REPORTING
47
1 some smart aleck remark about why don't you just
2 build brick columns or something. (DOOR NOISE TABOR AGAIN)
3 Well, sir, I didn't order brick columns.
4 If I did, I think it would look most inappropriate
5 here. What we want is a good, solid deck. I told
6 him that I had the money to pay him; and that if we
7 would fix these two things, which there was a
8 solution to the slab, which would have required I
9 think four holes, that we knew about at the time, and
10 we had come up with a method in which to repair the
11 deck, or at least that portion of it, not the entire
12 deck but that portion of it; and he went ballistic.
13 He said, and I quote -- this is burned in my brain --
14 I don't have to put up with this bull shit, unquote.
15 Q All right.
16 A He ran off. He said I'll see you in court.
17 Q Okay.
18 A And what in the world is going on here?
19 Q At that meeting was there any discussion
20 about putting a post under the deck to support it?
21 A Yes, ma'am. He wanted to put a post right
22 in the middle of that and in a storage area that I
23 had planned.
24 Q So he had offered at that time to do
25 something to rectify your concern?
GUNTHER REPORTING
48
1 A Well, actually it was not a solution.
2 Q I didn't ask that, sir. I said he offered
3 to do something --
4 A Yes, ma'am.
5 Q All right. Okay. But you found that
6 unacceptable?
7 A Well, the engineers found that unacceptable
8 too.
9 Q I didn't ask that. I move to strike.
10 You found it unacceptable, correct?
11 A I didn't think it would work. (DOOR SOUND TABOR AGAIN)
12 Q Okay. All right. And did it have
13 something to do with the fact that it would have some
14 sort -- it would block an area that you used for
15 storage?
16 A The primary problem -- I mean that as a
17 layman and not a construction engineer -- that was my
18 problem with it, the real problem is that it won't
19 work.
20 Q All right. At the time that the slab was
21 poured did you try yourself to put some sort of drain
22 in the slab when it was being poured?
23 A That was Keith's idea.
24 Q You are talking about Mr. Payne?
25 A Mr. Payne, yes, ma'am.
GUNTHER REPORTING
49
1 Q All right.
2 A I mean the gutters came right down on the
3 side of the slab. What happens is that the water is
4 going to pour out of the -- what do you call it --
5 and then go down the side of the slab washing all the
6 dirt out from under it.
7 Q Okay.
8 A He had to put it there.
9 Q Did he put it there, or did you put it
10 there?
11 A I went and bought the little cap, and I
12 bought the PVC on his suggestion that it be moved.
13 Q But when he came to pour it -- I'm just
14 trying to understand. Again, I wasn't there -- were
15 you physically out there trying to put this drain in,
16 or was that something Mr. Payne was out there doing?
17 A Oh, no. He was doing all the installation.
18 Q Okay. All right. Prior to this
19 walk-through on the 15th we'll call it, did you have
20 any discussion with Mr. Tabor about the lack of argon
21 gas?
22 A On the 15th?
23 Q Prior to that time.
24 A Yes. Me personally?
25 Q Yes.
GUNTHER REPORTING
50
1 A No.
2 Q You didn't?
3 A No. My wife did.
4 Q Okay. All right. I can ask her about
5 that.
6 At any time have you had any discussion
7 with Mr. Tabor about any sort of masonry work being
8 done around those two windows on the front of the
9 house that are in the stone?
10 A The only thing he told us about the
11 installation of the windows there was that the stone
12 might drop off of the screen. See, when they do the
13 stone on there it's got the screen behind it, and the
14 stone is plastered or mortared onto that screen. He
15 said that might fall off.
16 Q Okay. But was there really any suggestion
17 from him that his company or someone that he would
18 contract with would come and do any sort of repair to
19 the stone facade?
20 A He said that if the stone fell, he could
21 not repair it; but he did say that the window would
22 be finished if there were no stones that were broken
23 off; and Jimmy, the window installer, said he could
24 fix that. He could solve that problem in minutes if
25 he was told to do it, but he didn't.
GUNTHER REPORTING
51
1 Q Okay. Other than Mr. Crisp, who had come
2 out and looked at the slab at the time of this letter
3 that we've marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit 3? Had you
4 had anybody else come out and review the work that
5 was done by the plaintiff?
6 A When?
7 Q When you wrote this letter, Plaintiff's
8 Exhibit 3. By that time had you --
9 A No, ma'am. This was --
10 Q Just Mr. Crisp?
11 A Yes, ma'am.
12 Q And he only looked at the deck? I mean --
13 I'm sorry -- the slab?
14 A The slab and the deck.
15 Q All right. So he talked to you --
16 A No, I take that back. No. I think he
17 looked some at the window installation too and saw
18 problems there. I'm not sure if I mentioned them in
19 here. I know we had argon gas. Yeah. Yeah, he did,
20 because I said it here, it's not properly installed.
21 That was the installer. Adam was his name. He put
22 two screws in that, which we couldn't understand why.
23 Q And there is one of the windows --
24 A But at that point, no, we had not discussed
25 any other problems. The problems in the work is a
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52
1 learning experience obviously.
2 (Whereupon the document was
marked for identification as
3 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 4.)
4 THE WITNESS: Once again, I object because
5 it's not an original; but it does appear as if
6 it's the letter I wrote to -- is there another
7 one in here? No, maybe not.
8 BY MS. TABOR:
9 Q Can you identify subject to your objection
10 what we've called Plaintiffs 4?
11 A Yes, ma'am, it does appear as if this is a
12 letter that I wrote to Mr. Tabor.
13 Q Okay. And it's dated January 3, 2005?
14 A Yes, ma'am.
15 Q I'm going to ask you two questions here:
16 One, between the meeting there on the 15th when he
17 came out to your house, Mr. Tabor, and the letter
18 that you sent on the 20th, which -- or is dated the
19 20th marked 3, did you have any conversations with
20 Mr. Tabor during that time?
21 A No, ma'am.
22 Q Okay. From the time you wrote the letter
23 on the 20th of December until you wrote the letter on
24 January 3rd that we have now marked Plaintiff's 4,
25 did you have any contact with him?
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53
1 A No, ma'am.
2 Q Okay.
3 A And after December 15th, you know, the ball
4 was in his court. I figured I was going to get a
5 lawsuit here.
6 Q Okay. All right.
7 (Whereupon the document was
marked for identification as
8 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 5.)
9 THE WITNESS: Once again, I lodge an
10 objection because this is not an original.
11 BY MS. TABOR:
12 Q Mr. McKinney, you can have that standing
13 objection if you would like, because none of these
14 are originals.
15 A All right.
16 Q All right. Take a moment to look at it and
17 then can you tell me what the document marked as
18 Plaintiff's Exhibit 5 is?
19 A It's a letter I wrote to Mr. Tabor on
20 January 14 in response to a letter he sent me on
21 January 4th, 2005, and it is a compilation of the
22 three letters that I had planned on writing.
23 Q All right. Paragraph number four says, The
24 contract is very clear when it states no verbal
25 agreements recognized. So any
GUNTHER REPORTING
54
1 agreements/arrangements/deals we have/had outside the
2 contract cannot be a part of any negotiation.
3 Is it fair to say that's a sentence that
4 you wrote?
5 A Yes, ma'am.
6 Q Okay. Mr. McKinney, let me ask you: do you
7 think that you as a citizen has the authority or the
8 right to enforce building codes?
9 A I'm not trying to enforce building codes,
10 but I am subject to the building codes, or the house
11 is.
12 Q I move to strike as nonresponsive.
13 A And anyway, he said they were going to be
14 built by the code, not me.
15 Q I move to strike as nonresponsive.
16 Paragraph seven says, The siding is
17 complete and in my opinion rates good?
18 A From what I knew at the time, yes.
19 Q Paragraph eight, The gutters are complete
20 and in my opinion rates good. Is that a fair
21 statement? That's what you said?
22 A Based on what I knew at the time, yes,
23 ma'am.
24 Q And paragraph nine says, The front deck is
25 complete and I will accept it as fair. What's wrong
GUNTHER REPORTING
55
1 with the front deck? What was wrong with it? Why is
2 it fair?
3 A It's shoddy work.
4 Q Why do you say shoddy? What about that was
5 bothering you back on January 14th?
6 A Well, the caps were done.
7 Q You mean the post caps?
8 A Uh-huh (affirmative). It's almost fallen
9 off. I keep having to move it. My understanding was
10 it was going to be concrete there.
11 Q All right.
12 A You've got to put the concrete down there (WHAT ELSE DO YOU DO WITH DECKS)
13 to hold the thing in place.
14 Q All right. If we refer back to Plaintiff's
15 Exhibit No. 2, page three, it says, Build wood deck
16 approximately 5 feet wide x 5 feet deep from front
17 door with one step and rails. Is that your
18 recollection of what the contract provided?
19 A Uh-huh (affirmative).
20 Q Is that a yes?
21 A Yes, ma'am.
22 Q All right. And nowhere in there is there
23 any mention of concrete; is that true? Is that a
24 fair statement?
25 A I object to that. It's like selling a car.
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56
1 Q You can't object to that. Mr. McKinney,
2 answer the question.
3 A Well, it's leading and it's misleading;
4 because it's like the contract selling a car and
5 there are no wheels on it. Is there anywhere in the
6 contract where it says wheels?
7 Q I move to strike as nonresponsive.
8 Now, I'll ask you the question again. Does
9 the contract itself at any time state that there
10 would be any concrete associated with the
11 construction of the --
12 A No, ma'am.
13 Q All right.
14 A Tack on the end, for crying out loud. (LIKE JACK ONEILL SAYS)
15 Q I move to strike as nonresponsive.
16 All right. Paragraph 10 --
17 A Not to mention -- can we --
18 Q No, we can't.
19 A Okay.
20 Q Paragraph 10 says, The back deck is not
21 complete as it has insufficient support for the
22 11-and-a-half or over half the length of the deck,
23 just the first sentence. My question regarding
24 paragraph number 10 really resolves around the last
25 sentence. We had received a bid for this work that
GUNTHER REPORTING
57
1 comes to $320.
2 Who gave you a bid for that work?
3 A You'll have to talk to my wife about that
4 one.
5 Q Okay. Did you ever have any discussion
6 with Mr. Tabor about the concrete slab wherein he
7 told you the concrete alone for that job cost him a
8 thousand dollars?
9 A No, ma'am.
10 Q Did your wife ever tell you she had a
11 conversation to this?
12 A No, ma'am. That seems to be -- why would
13 somebody tell me what the materials cost?
14 Q Move to strike. Nonresponsive.
15 Okay. Mr. McKinney, you have made
16 allegations in this lawsuit that at the time
17 Mr. Tabor had discussions with you about argon gas in
18 the windows that he full well knew, he knowingly told
19 you something that was incorrect. He defrauded you.
20 He told you those windows had argon gas; and they, in
21 fact, didn't come with argon gas. Tell me what facts
22 you have that support that Mr. Tabor knew at the time
23 he made those statements about the argon gas, that
24 when the windows came they would not have argon gas
25 contrary to what he told you?
GUNTHER REPORTING
58
1 A You'll have to repeat the question, because
2 I --
3 Q Okay. All right. You've made allegations
4 in the lawsuit --
5 A Which allegations?
6 Q Well, you know, okay. Mr. McKinney, you
7 have stated time and time again that Mr. Tabor
8 defrauded you when he told you that the windows would
9 have argon gas; and then when they came, they didn't.
10 And all I want to know is if that is your position,
11 that at the time that Mr. Tabor told you those
12 statements about the windows that he full well knew
13 they weren't going to have argon gas in them, what
14 facts support that? How do you know Mr. Tabor was
15 lying when he said those windows will have argon gas?
16 A He didn't order them. It says so on the
17 order sheet. He has no place for argon gas on the
18 order sheet.
19 Q Okay. So if he doesn't have a place for
20 argon gas on the order sheet, that is the only fact
21 which supports your belief that he was defrauding you
22 when he said it would come with argon gas?
23 A Well, I'll have to think about that for a
24 while, if that's the only fact I have. I don't know
25 for sure if that's the only fact I have.
GUNTHER REPORTING
59
1 Q Well, at this time the only one you can
2 think of is there's no place to check on the order
3 sheet? Is that not what you just testified to?
4 A Yes, ma'am.
5 Q Okay. Can you tell me who, if anyone --
6 well, strike that.
7 Has anyone ever told you that the warranty
8 on those windows as installed is void?
9 A You'll have to talk to Robyn about the
10 warranty issues.
11 Q All right. But my question is: has anyone
12 ever told you that?
13 A I believe. Yes. I'm pretty sure that the
14 rep for -- let me -- let me be careful right here and
15 make sure I really understand what you are asking.
16 Has anyone told me that the warranty would be voided?
17 Q Due to the way they were installed.
18 A No, ma'am.
19 Q Okay. All right.
20 A My wife, maybe she could answer.
21 Q Okay. Fair enough.
22 Paragraph 14 of the letter, referring back
23 to Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 5, says, The masonry grout
24 work for the windows in the stonework comes under
25 the, quote, good work clause of the contract and we
GUNTHER REPORTING(door opens John Tabor is there)
60
1 have a bid of $50.
2 What do you mean by that statement?
3 Do you want something to drink?
4 A I've got a diet Coke right here. I would
5 like to take a break if I could.
6 Q Okay. Well, answer this question; and then
7 we'll take a 10 minute break.
8 A Fair enough. You'll have to talk to my
9 wife about bids.
10 Q Okay. All right. Then it's not true as
11 you testified earlier that the contract itself did
12 not provide for any masonry work to be done by
13 Insulated Wall Systems?
14 A Excuse me?
15 Q Did you not tell me earlier today that the
16 contract did not provide that Insulated Wall Systems
17 would do any masonry work?
18 A I don't think it does, does it?
19 Q That's what I'm saying. Would you agree
20 with me that the contract does not provide for
21 masonry work?
22 A Yes, ma'am.
23 Q But in paragraph 14 here you are demanding
24 that Insulated Wall Systems do something about it, or
25 you're going to get --
GUNTHER REPORTING
61
1 A No, ma'am, not masonry work. This is not
2 what we're asking for I don't think. What we are
3 asking for is that the window be finished off.
4 Q Okay. It says, The masonry grout work for
5 the windows and the stonework comes under the, quote,
6 good work, close quote, clause?
7 A Because the windows are exposed. Out in
8 the wall envelope it's exposed to the atmosphere, to
9 the environment.
10 Q All right. Paragraph 14 dealing with,
11 quote, masonry grout work --
12 A That's the grout around the window, yes,
13 ma'am.
14 Q All right. And you testified to me earlier
15 that the contract with Insulated Wall Systems had
16 nothing to do with masonry work? There was no work
17 in the masonry field to be done by anybody on behalf
18 of Insulated Wall Systems?
19 A It's not in the contract. That's true.
20 Q All right. Why don't we go ahead and take
21 our break, and it's about 25 till, so to quarter
22 till.
23 A Quarter till?
24 Q Yes.
25 (A short break was held.)( John Tabor is there)
GUNTHER REPORTING
62
1 BY MS. TABOR:
2 Q All right. Mr. McKinney, we are back on
3 the record. I'm still referring to what we've marked
4 Plaintiff's Exhibit 5.
5 A Okay.
6 Q All right. Referring to paragraph 12, this
7 paragraph deals with the windows.
8 A Okay.
9 Q Let me ask you a question with regard to
10 argon gas, and I'm not asking you for a technical
11 opinion or anything like that. I just want your
12 understanding of what benefit that is in the window.
13 A 50 percent drop in the sound level that
14 comes through the window, 25 drop in the energy
15 saving or 25 percent energy savings over the life of
16 the windows.
17 Q All right. And since you've quoted some
18 very specific percentages to me, can you tell me
19 where you acquired or where you got this information?
20 A Well, they are not specific in the terms
21 that they are technical. I'm not --
22 Q I just want to know how you came to know
23 those specific things that you are talking about.
24 A I went on the Web and found them.
25 Q So these are things you got off the
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63
1 Internet research?
2 A Yes, ma'am.
3 Q Prior to installing these windows did you
4 have the original windows in the home, maybe original
5 wood windows I guess?
6 A No they were aluminum.
7 Q They were aluminum?
8 A Yes, ma'am.
9 Q So what we call storm windows, or were they
10 just windows that went in a house?
11 A We had the windows that came with the house
12 obviously, and we also had what they call -- we had
13 energy efficient windows installed by Sears, and I
14 can't recall when; but it was supposed to mimic the
15 double pane windows in that you have a magnetic strip
16 around the inside of the window, and you have another
17 plexiglass, I guess it's called, pane that goes in
18 there.
19 Q In this system you are talking about, was
20 that on the interior of the house or the exterior?
21 A It was on the interior.
22 Q Oh, okay. All right. Going back to
23 something I recalled about the home inspection, the
24 bottom floor of your home, prior to this work that
25 the plaintiff did, were you guys using that as living
GUNTHER REPORTING
64
1 space, or was that -- I remember your wife saying
2 something about this was unfinished space.
3 A Yes, ma'am, but that was years ago.
4 Q Okay.
5 A The garden -- I mean the -- garden, the
6 garage was that area in which -- well, it's our kind
7 of what we call a living room I guess. That was a
8 garage at one time.
9 Q All right. Okay. But you already had all
10 that set up, that living area and the bedroom there
11 in kind of the back corner of that bottom floor. Was
12 all that setup prior to work being done that we are
13 talking about today?
14 A Yes, ma'am.
15 Q The reason I'm asking that question, so
16 you'll know where I'm going, is I want to know if
17 prior to the installation of these windows that we
18 are here about today, were you using that bottom
19 floor as living space?
20 A Yes, ma'am.
21 Q Okay. Have you noticed at all -- and I
22 don't know if you've even kept track of these
23 things -- since you had these replacement windows
24 installed any drop in the cost that you are paying I
25 guess per unit for energy?
GUNTHER REPORTING
65
1 A My power bill has gone up.
2 Q But would you agree that's for reasons
3 other than the work that the Plaintiff had done?
4 A Excuse me?
5 Q Okay. Everyone's power bill has probably
6 gone up for energy cost reasons. I'm just trying to
7 see if you have noticed -- have you noticed any
8 savings at all in a relative way by having these
9 windows installed?
10 A No, ma'am.
11 Q All right. Mr. McKinney, if I understood
12 you correctly, you were saying that the benefit of
13 the argon gas as you knew it was for sound and -- a
14 sound buffer and energy savings?
15 A Yes, ma'am.
16 Q That's a fair statement?
17 A Yes, ma'am.
18 Q Okay. With regard to the energy savings
19 have you had anybody calculate what the lack of the
20 argon gas, what has been the consequence of that as
21 far as energy savings over the life of the window?
22 A No, ma'am. I have done some calculations
23 of my own.
24 Q All right.
25 A But I can't recall the exact numbers.
GUNTHER REPORTING
66
1 Q Okay.
2 A But if you figure it up based on the data
3 that I have and have studied over the life of the
4 windows, which my understanding is 20 years, it comes
5 to a considerable amount.
6 Q Are you contending in this lawsuit that if
7 they had argon gas in them, you would be saving money
8 on your energy bills?
9 A I'm contending that I ordered argon gas in
10 the widows.
11 Q Move to strike.
12 I'm asking are you contending that an
13 element of your damage in this lawsuit is that if you
14 had the argon gas, you would be afforded an energy
15 savings that you are not getting?
16 A I'm not -- I don't believe we have -- let's
17 see. What is the word I'm looking for? I don't
18 believe we have included that in our damages, no.
19 Q So with regard to the windows, the crux of
20 your complaint is we didn't get what we ordered?
21 A That's correct.
22 Q Okay. And just because I want the record
23 to be clear, were there any screens that you were
24 missing off of the windows or screens that are
25 damaged?
GUNTHER REPORTING
67
1 A There are at least three that are damaged.
2 Q Okay. Are there any that just didn't get
3 there?
4 A I do not know that. I could not tell you.
5 I mean I would have to go -- I do not believe that
6 there are. I'll put it that way.
7 Q All right. Okay. So on page three of this
8 letter, Plaintiff's Exhibit 5 in paragraph 17, at
9 that time says, The total in dispute at this point
10 comes to 6570. Therefore, the most I could sign off
11 on and pay for is 9430?
12 A That's correct.
13 Q But given the wording of the contract,
14 tying low within the lower bounds of the contract --
15 A I believe that I am, or was.
16 Q Well, let me finish the question.
17 A Okay. I'm sorry.
18 Q Because she can't do it all.
19 -- by refusing to do so; and, therefore, I
20 will not pay you at this time unless you want to
21 accept this as payment in full.
22 All right. So is it fair to say that on or
23 about January 14, 2005, you are saying, Look, I'll
24 pay you 9430 for this job, and that's it?
25 A Based on what I knew at the time, yes,
GUNTHER REPORTING
68
1 ma'am.
2 Q Okay. I've just got some documents I just
3 want to go over so I will have a better
4 understanding. These are documents I'll submit to
5 you that you provided to me in the course of
6 discovery, and I just want you to let me know so that
7 I will have a better understanding of what they are.
8 A Can I say something? I may not be able to
9 speak to them.
10 Q Okay. If you can't, and that's the whole
11 point here, sir. If you can't, you let me know.
12 A But I can tell you the person who can.
13 Q That's right. That's fair enough. Okay.
14 I'm going to mark this as Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 6.
15 (Whereupon the document was
marked for identification as
16 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 6.)
17 BY MS. TABOR:
18 Q Take a look at that and tell me if you -- I
19 realize it's got several things on it, but can you
20 tell me what those are?
21 A Ma'am, I cannot speak to this.
22 Q All right. Can you tell me what they are?
23 A They are I believe business cards from
24 people who have come and looked at the work.
25 Q All right. And who would be in a better
GUNTHER REPORTING
69
1 position to speak to those than you are, if you know?
2 A Robyn.
3 Q Okay.
4 A Ms. McKinney.
5 (Whereupon the document was
marked for identification as
6 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 7.)
7 BY MS. TABOR:
8 Q All right. I'm going to have marked what
9 you've been handed -- what I'm going to identify as
10 Plaintiff's Exhibit 7. Take a look at that and tell
11 me, if you know, what that document is.
12 A Yes, I believe that's an e-mail to Bill
13 Lambdin at Atlanta Home Technologies that involves
14 getting a quote for the window replacement. It would
15 be better if my wife speaks to this.
16 Q Okay. Did you ever have any conversations
17 or dealings with Mr. Lambdin at Atlanta Home
18 Technologies?
19 A No, ma'am. My wife has taken care of all
20 of this.
21 Q Okay. Would you agree with me that
22 Plaintiff's Exhibit 7 indicates on the top that this
23 e-mail was sent on September 12th, 2005?
24 A That's what it says; but, again, this is a
25 copy; and on e-mails who knows? I can't, you know, I
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70
1 wouldn't vouch for this document at all. She may or
2 may not know. You would have to ask her.
3 Q Okay. All right. That's fair.
4 (Whereupon the document was
marked for identification as
5 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 8.)
6 BY MS. TABOR:
7 Q The same question I've asked you with the
8 two prior documents.
9 A The same answer, if you want me to repeat
10 the answer.
11 Q All right. Plaintiff's Exhibit 8 --
12 A Yes.
13 Q -- appears to be correspondence --
14 A Now, let me say this: these are 9/12. I
15 was down on my -- I was in sciatica pain like you
16 have never seen.
17 Q All right. Okay. All right. But for the
18 record we are going to make this clear on the record.
19 All right. Have you ever seen Plaintiff's Exhibit
20 No. 8 prior to right now?
21 A I believe so.
22 Q Okay. Can you tell me what your
23 understanding of that document is?
24 A I believe -- now, this is a belief. This
25 is not a --
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71
1 Q I'm only asking for your understanding.
2 That's all.
3 A That's a -- it looks like a -- it looks
4 like a quote for the slab. The slab, yes.
5 Q All right. On page one of Plaintiff's
6 Exhibit No. 8 it appears that this is directed to a
7 person named Rick Lorenz at Border Magic. My
8 question to you, sir, is: have you ever had any
9 conversations or any other dealings with Rick Lorenz
10 at Border Magic?
11 A No, ma'am.
12 Q All right.
13 A Once again, my wife handled that.
14 Q Okay. All right. Fair enough. Thank you,
15 sir.
16 (Whereupon the document was
marked for identification as
17 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 9.)
18 BY MS. TABOR:
19 Q All right. I hand you what has been marked
20 Plaintiff's 9.
21 A Okay.
22 Q Okay. Plaintiff's 9 appears to be a
23 transmittal to James Ferguson at TCS Construction
24 Services, Inc. My question is: have you ever had any
25 conversations or any other contact with Mr. Ferguson
GUNTHER REPORTING
72
1 at TCS Construction Services, Inc.?
2 A Once again, my wife handled the work.
3 Q So the answer is, no, you have not had any?
4 A No.
5 Q All right.
6 (Whereupon the document was
marked for identification as
7 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 10.)
8 BY MS. TABOR:
9 Q If you would, take a look at what has now
10 been identified and marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit 10.
11 A Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am.
12 Q Okay. It appears to be a transmittal to
13 Bryan Beaty, I guess, of HardScapes. Let me ask you
14 the same question I asked you before. Have you ever
15 had any conversations or any other contact with
16 Mr. Beaty at HardScapes?
17 A No, ma'am.
18 Q All right. And if you have not, who would
19 be the person most suited to discuss this document?
20 A My wife.
21 Q All right. Thank you, sir.
22 (Whereupon the document was
marked for identification as
23 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 11.)
24 BY MS. TABOR:
25 Q All right. If you will, look at what has
GUNTHER REPORTING
73
1 been marked Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 11.
2 A Okay.
3 Q Okay. Let me ask you first, sir: have you
4 ever seen this document prior to today?
5 A I think I have looked through it, yes,
6 ma'am.
7 Q Okay. On the first page it appears to be
8 correspondence to Dan Bishop of SD & B Services.
9 A Yes, ma'am.
10 Q My question is: have you ever had any
11 correspondence or conversation or any other contact
12 with Mr. Bishop at SD & B Services?
13 A No, ma'am.
14 Q All right. Who would be the person most --
15 A My wife.
16 Q There you go. All right. Thank you, sir.
17 (Whereupon the document was
marked for identification as
18 Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 12.)
19
20 THE WITNESS: Okay.
21 BY MS. TABOR:
22 Q Okay. I think we are up to No. 12. After
23 Jackie marks it, if you will just take a look at it.
24 A Okay.
25 Q Okay. This seems to be correspondence to
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74
1 Mr. Thomas Vaughn at Sequoyah Vinyl Creations, Inc.
2 The first question is: have you ever seen this
3 document before?
4 A I believe that I have.
5 Q All right. Did you, in fact, send this to
6 Mr. Vaughn?
7 A Not personally, no. It was sent on my
8 behalf.
9 Q And who sent the document on your behalf?
10 A Robyn.
11 Q All right. Did you get a quote from
12 Sequoyah Vinyl Creations, Inc., in response to your
13 request?
14 A Yes.
15 Q All right. And have you provided that to
16 us?
17 A I would have to check on the list of things
18 that we have done.
19 Q If I submit to you that I do not have a
20 copy of Sequoyah's quote and ask you if you would
21 please provide that to me, you know, on a piece of
22 paper?
23 A I can write on the back.
24 Q Okay. And my understanding is that
25 Sequoyah has now been back out to your house since
GUNTHER REPORTING
75
1 the home inspection; is that correct?
2 A Yes, ma'am.
3 Q Go ahead and write down whatever you want
4 to. Then I'll ask you a question.
5 A You want me to provide the quote from
6 Sequoyah?
7 Q Yes, sir.
8 A Okay.
9 Q All right. Now, to jump ahead just a
10 little bit since we are on the subject of Sequoyah,
11 apparently they have come out to your house since the
12 inspection that we had on the 5th and done some work
13 to the home, correct?
14 A No, ma'am.
15 Q All right. Tell me: but they did come out
16 and remove some siding from the house?
17 A We wanted to know what was under the
18 siding.
19 Q Okay. Just can you tell me what they did
20 that day?
21 A What they did is removed the siding
22 underneath the window that's above the slab.
23 Q Okay. The window on the first floor?
24 A Yes, ma'am.
25 Q All right. All right. Did they remove it
GUNTHER REPORTING
76
1 from any other portion of the home?
2 A No, ma'am.
3 Q And I know that you sent me via e-mail a
4 couple of photographs in that area that you
5 photographed for me below that window?
6 A Yes, ma'am.
7 Q Okay. Since I don't have your quote from
8 Sequoyah, I'm just going to have to kind of ask you
9 some questions. I'm kind of in the dark here. What
10 have you secured a quote from Sequoyah to do?
11 A Replace the siding and windows.
12 Q And was the exercise that you went through
13 the other day that we've just been talking about, was
14 that part of the effort to do that?
15 A No, ma'am.
16 Q Okay. What was the purpose of doing that
17 the other day?
18 A Part of siding is the way I understand it
19 from reading the installation manuals, you know, it's
20 kind of like -- gee, I don't know what I would
21 describe it to; but it's more, you know, when you
22 look at a house that's got new siding on it, it can
23 look good; but the devil is always in the details of
24 what's underneath, and what we were concerned about
25 was what is underneath.
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77
1 Q Okay.
2 A Okay. And we were told that wood would be
3 replaced with wood, rotten wood for example. We were
4 told that when that window was going to be replaced,
5 that, you know, the proper -- well, that window
6 wasn't replaced. That was a new installation. So
7 what the window has to have is a proper header on the
8 top and the bottom.
9 Now, as -- well, obviously I cannot testify
10 to those. I'm just trying to make a decision as to
11 without those headers, you've got all that weight
12 from the house on the window. Okay. What we wanted
13 to determine or what I wanted to know is whether or
14 not there was a proper header there that's going to
15 support that whole part of the house; and also what
16 was done underneath the window, because I couldn't
17 remember, and as it turns out, all that wood was
18 taken off and just replaced with five layers of foam
19 board.
20 Q All right. Let me break down a couple of
21 things. As far as the header above the window, is
22 there a header there?
23 A It's not done properly.
24 Q Okay. Is there a header there?
25 A No, ma'am.
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1 Q There is no wood above the window?
2 A Well, there's a difference between a header
3 and wood.
4 Q Okay. Tell me what's there since I wasn't
5 there, that's your understanding. Again, this is not
6 a technical -- I'm not asking you for that. I'm just
7 asking what you know.
8 A There's a piece of wood there, but it is
9 not tied on the ends as far as I can understand to
10 the 2 x 4 supports, and that's the problem.
11 Q Okay. Now let me ask you a question about
12 the second part of what you said about the five
13 layers. Your house prior to this work that was done
14 that we're here about today had a composite siding on
15 it; is that correct?
16 A No, ma'am.
17 Q Did it have cedar wood?
18 A Yes, ma'am.
19 Q Okay. So my understanding is that was
20 removed from the home?
21 A No, ma'am.
22 Q It was not removed?
23 A No.
24 Q Were any portions of that cedar removed?
25 A As it turns out, yes, ma'am.
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1 Q Okay. All right. And so with regard to
2 this area that you have now had exposed, just tell me
3 a little bit more about what you are talking about.
4 You said as it turns out all that's under there is
5 five layers. I'm just trying to understand.
6 A Yeah. Well, you've seen the picture.
7 What's underneath the window from the window bottom
8 all the way to the bottom of the house, I guess you
9 would call it, is no wood. It's just five layers;<