Go To Other online Documents in this lawsuit.
See the Proper Method of Removal and Installation of the replacement windows John Tabor was selling to see how obviously it was not done by the manufacturers instructions.
Keep in mind when you read this deposition, the Mack Hilton spoken of here by John Tabor is the same Gary Michael Hilton who murdered Meredith Emerson in Jan. 2008. The John Tabor is the same person who employed this brutal murderer and possible Seriel Killer and according to Hilton, Tabor housed him for nearly 10 years. When Tabor says Mack Hilton did not come to our home, he is bald face lying under oath! So what did John Tabor know even then early in 2007 that he felt it so important to lie about this guy, Mack Hilton? If he would lie about something seemingly so unimportant at the time, what eles is he willing to lie about under oath or not? You be the Judge!
See the Proper Method of Removal and Installation of the replacement windows John Tabor was selling to see how obviously it was not done by the manufacturers instructions.
Keep in mind when you read this deposition, the Mack Hilton spoken of here by John Tabor is the same Gary Michael Hilton who murdered Meredith Emerson in Jan. 2008. The John Tabor is the same person who employed this brutal murderer and possible Seriel Killer and according to Hilton, Tabor housed him for nearly 10 years. When Tabor says Mack Hilton did not come to our home, he is bald face lying under oath! So what did John Tabor know even then early in 2007 that he felt it so important to lie about this guy, Mack Hilton? If he would lie about something seemingly so unimportant at the time, what eles is he willing to lie about under oath or not? You be the Judge!
IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF GWINNETT COUNTY
STATE OF GEORGIA
INSULATED WALL SYSTEMS, INC.,)
)
Plaintiff, )
) CIVIL ACTION FILE
vs. ) NO: 05A-06942-9
)
RON MCKINNEY, )
)
Defendant. )
- - -
Deposition of JOHN TABOR,
taken on behalf of the Defendant, pursuant to the
stipulations, agreed to herein, before
Meredith B. Cohen, Certified Court Reporter and
Notary Public at 3025 Bethany Church Road,
Snellville, Georgia, on the 6th day of February,
2007, commencing at 10:03 a.m.
RAJANI REPORTING, INC.
CERTIFIED COURT REPORTERS
1119 BRASELTON HIGHWAY
LAWRENCEVILLE, GEORGIA 30043
(770) 822-9888
2
1 I N D E X
2 EXAMINATION PAGE
3 By Mr. McKinney..............................6
4 By Ms. Tabor.................................147
5
6
7 E X H I B I T S
8 EXHIBIT NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE
9 1 Notice to take 15
Deposition of
10 Plaintiff
11 2 Postcard 15, 16,
33, 35,
12 50, 51
13 3 Business Card 16
14 4 Contract 16, 33,
35, 50,
15 56, 67,
72, 114
16
5 Gwinnett County 17, 55
17 Construction Code
18 5A Gwinnett County 18, 55
Construction Code
19 Original Document
20
6 IRC - International 17
21 Residential Code
22 6A IRC - International 18
Residential Code
23 Original Document
24 7 Gwinnett County Deck 18, 88,
Additions 91
25
3
1 E X H I B I T S (Continued)
2 EXHIBIT NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE
3 8 Gwinnett County 19
Home Addition
4 Monolithic Slab
5 9 VSI - Vinyl Siding 19, 126
Installation Manual 127, 143
6
10 GreenGuard Housewrap 19
7 Production Guide &
Installation
8
11 GreenGuard Fanfold 20, 137
9 Installation Guide
10 12 Insulated Wall 20, 117,
Systems Window Order
11 Form
12 13 Three Letters to 20
Plaintiff from
13 Defendant
14 14 Plaintiff's Letter to 22
Defendant
15
15 Copy of Lien 22
16
16 Complaint 22
17
17 Grover Contract and 22
18 Lien
19 18 Beniger Contract and 23
Lien and Letter
20
19 Gooch Building 23, 78,
21 Consultants 79, 80,
Inspection Report - 87, 88,
22 Gooch 98, 114
23 20 House Smart Home 25, 78,
Inspection Report - 79, 86,
24 Cook 87, 114
25
4
1 E X H I B I T S (Continued)
2 EXHIBIT NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE
3 21 Champia ASHI 25, 93
Inspection Report - 114
4 Berlyoung
5 22 ASHI Standards of 26
Practice and Code
6 of Ethics
7 23 Atrium Letter - 27, 117,
Chris Reilly 119
8
24 Sequoyah Statement - 28
9 Vaungh
10 25 Hardscapes Slab Redo 29
Quote - Beaty
11
26 Decks by Jeff - 30
12 Pettigrew
13 27 Collection of 30, 84,
32 pages of 87, 99,
14 photographs 111,
131,
15 145
16 28 Series 60 Window 30, 31,
Brochure (Back Page) 120
17
28A Series 60 Window 31, 120
18 Brochure - Original
Document
19
29 Physical Injury 31
20 Medical Expense Summary
21 30 Series 40 Window 32, 33,
Brochure - 34, 120
22 (Back Page)
23 30A Series 40 Window 33, 34,
Brochure - Original 120
24 Document
25
5
1 E X H I B I T S (Continued)
2 EXHIBIT NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE
3 31 Ted Lansing Delivery 32
Slip
4
32 Series 40 & 60 Window 32
5 Warranty
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
6
1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
2 On behalf of the Plaintiff:
3 JANA B. TABOR, Esquire
450 Arborshade Trace
4 Duluth, Georgia 30097
(770) 814-8134
5
On behalf of the Defendant:
6
RON MCKINNEY (pro se)
7 4083 Red Laurel Way
Snellville, Georgia 30039
8 (770) 972-2576
9 Also Present:
10 Robyn McKinney
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
7
1 MR. MCKINNEY: This is the deposition of
2 plaintiff, Insulated Wall Systems, a Georgia
3 corporation. It is taken pursuant to
4 notice. It is being taken for the purpose of
5 discovery and all others purposes provided by
6 the Civil Practice Act.
7 Today's date is February 6, 2007, and it
8 is approximately 11 minutes past 10.
9 Let the record reflect that present at
10 the deposition is the Defendant, Ron
11 McKinney, who is acting pro se.
12 Also present is Mr. Tabor, plaintiff's
13 apparent designated representative for
14 discovery, and Jana B. Tabor, counsel for
15 plaintiff; and Meredith Cohen, the Certified
16 Court Reporter.
17 Also in the room is Robyn McKinney, wife
18 of the defendant.
19 Let the record also reflect that at this
20 time I am reserving all objections except as
21 to the form of the question and
22 responsiveness of the answer until first use
23 of the deposition.
24 MS. TABOR: That's fine.
25 ///
8
1 JOHN TABOR,
2 was called as a witness, having been first duly
3 sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
4 EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
6 Q Have you ever a given a deposition
7 before?
8 A Yes, I have.
9 Q Could you tell me when and what case?
10 A The year I am guessing was either 1999
11 or 2000. The location was at the lawyer's office
12 for the defendant. I can't tell you the address
13 or the attorney's name or what part of town. I
14 have no recollection as to that.
15 Q The case?
16 A The case was, defendant's name was
17 Grover, Larry Grover, to the best of my
18 recollection.
19 Q So you know how these things work?
20 A I have been to one, if that answers your
21 question, I believe.
22 Q I will lay the ground rules as best as I
23 understand them, because this is my first time
24 giving a deposition, or taking a deposition.
25 I will try not to talk over you. I will
9
1 try not to get into an argument with you. If you
2 don't understand the question, just state so and
3 I will try to rephrase it in a way that is more
4 understandable.
5 The other ground rule is, answer yes or
6 no instead of uh-huh or un-huh; and like I said,
7 again, let's not argue.
8 Would you state your full name for the
9 record, please.
10 A John Joseph Tabor.
11 Q Where do you reside?
12 A 450 Arbor Shade Trace, Duluth, 30097.
13 Q Who lives there with you?
14 A My wife and my son.
15 Q And is Ms. Tabor your wife?
16 A Yes, she is.
17 Q And she is also your attorney, is that
18 correct, or attorney for plaintiff?
19 A That's correct.
20 Q Do you own any property in Gwinnett
21 County?
22 MS. TABOR: Let me stop you right
23 there. The purpose of this deposition is to
24 depose the plaintiff. In your notice of
25 deposition, you have indicated several areas
10
1 to which you would like to depose the
2 plaintiff.
3 You are not to depose Mr. Tabor as an
4 individual. If you would like to ask him
5 questions with regard to the areas you have
6 indicated, that is fine. To the extent you
7 are going to ask him personal related
8 questions, I will instruct him not to answer.
9 MR. MCKINNEY: My understanding is, you
10 can only object to questions that go to
11 privilege, and I am free to ask him whatever
12 I want. However, I don't want to get into
13 his personal life either.
14 MS. TABOR: Okay. Well, then, let's
15 move on.
16 MR. MCKINNEY: That question has
17 something to do with this case.
18 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
19 Q Please state your academic education,
20 beginning with high school.
21 A I went to high school, Druid Hills High
22 School here in Atlanta. I graduated in 1981.
23 From that point I went to Georgia State
24 University in downtown Atlanta.
25 After I received my undergraduate degree
11
1 there, I took some time off, a year or so, and
2 then I went to Georgia State law school. I have
3 a jurist doctorate degree from Georgia State
4 School of Law.
5 Q What was your undergraduate degree?
6 A Business administration and criminal
7 justice.
8 Q And you do have a JD, jurist doctorate?
9 A That is correct.
10 Q Are you a member of the Bar?
11 A No.
12 Q In any state?
13 A No.
14 Q Have you ever been a member of the Bar?
15 A No.
16 Q State your position with the
17 corporation.
18 A I am the president of the corporation.
19 Q When were the incorporation papers filed
20 for plaintiff?
21 A When?
22 Q Yes.
23 A To the best of my recollection, I
24 believe the incorporation was done in 1989, maybe
25 1990, sometime around there.
12
1 Q State the name and title of the officers
2 of the corporation.
3 A I am the president, and the only other
4 officer of the corporation is Robert Tabor, who
5 is the secretary and the vice president. I am
6 treasurer and president.
7 Q You said you were treasurer, is that
8 what you said?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Robert Tabor, is he related to you?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Those are the only officers?
13 A That's correct.
14 Q How many employees does Insulated Wall
15 Systems have?
16 A None.
17 Q Would you consider yourself an employee?
18 A Yes.
19 Q So it has one?
20 A Well, yeah, it has one.
21 Q But you wouldn't consider Robert Tabor
22 an employee?
23 A No.
24 Q Now when I called you the first time,
25 there was a person by the name of Mack Hilton
13
1 there, he wasn't an employee at the time?
2 A No.
3 Q Is this the same Mack that came out and
4 worked on defendant's residence?
5 A No.
6 Q All right. Have you been fully prepared
7 by your attorney and corporation to give binding
8 answers --
9 MS. TABOR: Object to the question to
10 the extent it requires the deponent to answer
11 with regard to any statements he may have
12 made to counsel.
13 Subject to that objection, if you can
14 answer that question without revealing any
15 information, you can do that.
16 THE WITNESS: Repeat the question.
17 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
18 Q Have you been fully prepared --
19 MS. TABOR: I will object to the fact
20 that is a vague question.
21 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
22 Q -- to give binding answers --
23 A I don't understand what you are talking
24 about.
25 Q Let's move on.
14
1 At this time I will introduce the
2 exhibits. They have been pre-marked by
3 Ms. Cohen. All of these I supplied except for
4 one. I think we will determine that as we go
5 through.
6 Your objections will be noted for each
7 one, and we will continue on as if they were
8 admissible.
9 I will reserve my right -- I will let
10 the judge be the decider of what is admissible
11 and -- here's a list and they have been marked.
12 (Exhibits 1 through 32 were marked
13 for identification.)
14 MS. TABOR: Mr. McKinney, to the extent
15 that you present exhibits at the deposition has
16 nothing to do with whether or not they are
17 admissible in a court of law, it is whether or
18 not this deponent recognizes them, and this is
19 not an admissibility issue.
20 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
21 Q We will go through each one.
22 MS. TABOR: He can testify as to his
23 knowledge.
24 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
25 Q Let's go through them first and see if
15
1 we can identify them.
2 MS. TABOR: Do you want to start with
3 No. 1?
4 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
5 Q Number 1 is the notice to take
6 deposition of plaintiff. Do you agree that that
7 is what Exhibit No. 1 is?
8 A That is what it states.
9 Q Exhibit No. 2 --
10 MS. TABOR: Hold on. Do you have any
11 questions with regard to Exhibit No. 1?
12 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
13 Q I will introduce the exhibits and we will
14 just identify them.
15 As I go through this deposition, we will
16 call them up and ask questions.
17 MS. TABOR: All right.
18 MR. MCKINNEY: We can get off on tangents
19 four ways to Sunday if I do it any other way.
20 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
21 Q Exhibit No. 2, Defendant's Exhibit No. 2
22 is identified as a postcard that was sent by
23 Insulated Wall Systems; is that correct? Does
24 that look like the postcard?
25 MS. TABOR: Let's go off the record.
16
1 (Off the record.)
2 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
3 Q Would you please identify Exhibit No. 2,
4 if you can.
5 A It appears to be a postcard that was
6 used to solicit business that was sent by Mack
7 Hilton.
8 Q Is that your handwriting?
9 MS. TABOR: With regard to what?
10 MR. MCKINNEY: On that postcard.
11 THE WITNESS: There is lots of
12 handwriting on here.
13 MS. TABOR: On page 2?
14 MR. MCKINNEY: On both pages. Well,
15 principally, second page.
16 THE WITNESS: That appears to be my
17 handwriting.
18 MS. TABOR: Yes.
19 THE WITNESS: Yes.
20 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
21 Q Let's move on to Exhibit 3. Would you
22 please identify that if you can.
23 A That is one of my business cards with
24 some writing on it.
25 Q Exhibit 4 consists of three pages.
17
1 A That appears to be the work contract for
2 the work that was done on your home.
3 Q On the defendant's house?
4 A Correct.
5 Q Exhibit No. 5.
6 A It says, Gwinnett County Construction
7 Code.
8 Q Exhibit No. 6?
9 A It says, International Residential Code,
10 on page 1, for One and Two Family Dwellings,
11 dated 2006, from the International Code Council;
12 and the next page says it is the Georgia State
13 Amendments to the International Residential Code
14 For One and Two Family Dwellings, 2006 Edition.
15 Q As a matter of record, the full versions
16 are sitting right there.
17 Exhibit No. 7?
18 MS. TABOR: Okay, Mr. McKinney, to the
19 extent that in Exhibit 6 you presented two
20 pages to the deponent and asked the deponent
21 to identify those pages, that is all he has
22 identified.
23 MR. MCKINNEY: That is correct. But it
24 is what they represent.
25 MS. TABOR: To the extent we are not
18
1 talking about representations here, sir, you
2 have asked a deponent to identify a
3 document.
4 If there is something else you want him
5 to identify, you need to present it to the
6 deponent, not put it in the corner of the
7 room and say let the record reflect. If you
8 want to talk about it, you need to present
9 it.
10 MR. MCKINNEY: We have marked 5A.
11 Please mark this as Exhibit 6A.
12 (Exhibits 5A and 6A were marked for
13 identification.)
14 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
15 Q Exhibit No. 7, would you please identify
16 that document. Just read what it says.
17 A Gwinnett County Department of Planning
18 and Development. Deck additions to a home,
19 building permit requirements.
20 Q Page 2 does there appear to be --
21 A It appears to be an architectural
22 drawing of a portion of a deck.
23 Q Page 3, what does that appear to be?
24 A More writing and another diagram of a
25 staircase.
19
1 Q Exhibit No. 8?
2 A Exhibit No. 8 is apparently another
3 document from the Gwinnett County Department of
4 Planning and Development and the heading on this
5 page is, Building Addition to a Home Building
6 Permit Requirements, revised April, 2004.
7 Q Page 2, what does it appear to be?
8 A Page 2 is another page apparently from
9 the Gwinnett County Department of Planning and
10 Development, the development division, and it
11 seems to be titled, Minimum Plain Concrete
12 Footings and Foundation Requirements for One and
13 Two Family Dwellings.
14 Q Okay. Exhibit No. 9?
15 A Page 1 is entitled, Vinyl Siding
16 Installation Manual.
17 Q Exhibit No. 10?
18 A Exhibit No. 10 appears to be from
19 GreenGuard, it's Pactiv Building Products,
20 Product Guide Specification.
21 Q That is good enough -- well let's go
22 back to that one. Do you see there under air
23 barriers, where it says specifier notes?
24 A I see where it says specifier notes,
25 yes.
20
1 Q Would you read that sentence, the
2 following sentence.
3 A Specifier notes, this section covers
4 Pactiv building products, GreenGuard Value Wrap,
5 Housewrap.
6 Q All right sir. That is good enough.
7 Exhibit No. 11, read the top line would be good
8 enough.
9 A The top line for Exhibit No. 11 says,
10 Installation Instructions for GreenGuard Fanfold
11 Siding Underlayments Used as a
12 Water/Weather-resistive Barrier.
13 Q That is good. Exhibit No. 12. Can you
14 identify that document.
15 A That appears to be an order form that
16 was used to order the windows for your house.
17 Q Your order form or Insulated Wall's
18 order form?
19 A Correct.
20 Q Exhibit No. 13?
21 A Exhibit No. 13 appears to be a copy of a
22 letter from Defendant Ron McKinney to John Tabor,
23 Insulated Wall Systems, referencing first notice
24 contract dated 23rd August 2004 between Insulated
25 Wall Systems Inc. and Rob McKinney.
21
1 Q Okay. Move on to page 4 of that
2 exhibit. There are three pages on the first one,
3 the fourth page is --
4 A There is no page 4. Are you referring
5 to just the page marked number 1, after page 3?
6 Q The fourth physical page in the
7 document.
8 A What about it?
9 Q Would you read what that is. Would you
10 identify that, please, sir.
11 A It appears to be a copy of a letter from
12 Ron McKinney, the defendant, to John Tabor,
13 Insulated Wall Systems Inc., referencing second
14 notice and demand, contract dated 23rd August
15 2004 between Insulated Wall Systems Inc. and Ron
16 McKinney.
17 Q And the next page, can you identify
18 that?
19 A The next page appears to be another copy
20 of a letter from Defendant Ron McKinney to John
21 Tabor, Insulated Wall Systems Inc., referencing
22 third notice, contract dated 23rd August 2004
23 between Insulated Wall Systems Inc. and Ron
24 McKinney, response to letter dated January 4,
25 2005 from John Tabor to Mr. and Mrs. McKinney.
22
1 Q That identifies it.
2 Exhibit No. 14, could you please
3 identify that.
4 A It appears to be a copy of a letter from
5 Insulated Wall Systems Inc., dated January 4,
6 2005 addressed to Mr. and Mrs. McKinney.
7 Q Did you write that letter?
8 A Yes, I did.
9 Q Exhibit No. 15.
10 A What about it?
11 Q Please identify it.
12 A It appears to be a copy of the lien
13 filed and recorded, Clerk Superior Court of
14 Gwinnett County, January 4, 2005 at 10:10 a.m.
15 Q Did you file this lien?
16 A Yes, I did.
17 Q Exhibit 16, please identify it.
18 A It appears to be a copy of the Complaint
19 filed in the Superior Court of Gwinnett County,
20 Insulated Wall Systems Incorporated vs. Ron
21 McKinney, Defendant.
22 Q Exhibit 17, can you identify that.
23 A It appears to be a contract from
24 Insulated Wall Systems, Inc. for work performed
25 on a home owned by George Grover and Vera Grover
23
1 at 960 White Birch Way in Lawrenceville, dated
2 8th day of March 1999.
3 Q Did you enter into that contract as the
4 agent for Insulated Wall Systems?
5 A Yes, I did.
6 Q Exhibit 18, would you please identify
7 that.
8 A It appears to be a copy of the contract
9 between Insulated Wall Systems Inc. and Andy
10 Binegar at 3403 Wood Laurel Drive in Snellville,
11 Georgia dated the 22nd day of November 2004 for
12 siding to be installed on their house.
13 Q Did you enter into that contract for
14 Insulated Wall Systems?
15 A Yes, I did.
16 Q Exhibit 19, would you please identify
17 that document.
18 A It appears to be a copy of a letter from
19 Macon E. Gooch Building Consultants Inc.,
20 addressed to Ronald McKinney, the defendant,
21 regarding the residence at 4083 Red Laurel Way,
22 Laurel Creek Subdivision, Gwinnett County.
23 Q Would you agree that that is the
24 engineering report that we have supplied to
25 Insulated Wall Systems?
24
1 MS. TABOR: Restate your question.
2 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
3 Q Do you agree that this is the
4 engineering report that we supplied to Insulated
5 Wall Systems and plaintiff's attorney?
6 A I don't know, you would have to show me
7 the one you supplied my attorney, and I can
8 compare the two and tell you.
9 Q Well you should have it.
10 Have you reviewed all the documents that
11 defendant has supplied you?
12 A To the best of my knowledge, I have.
13 Q And this is one of the documents that
14 defendant has supplied you; is that correct?
15 A I just told you, I don't specifically
16 remember every document. There has been so many
17 documents in this case, it is impossible to pick
18 up any one and --
19 Q Who is the document signed by, or what
20 is the stamp on this document, page 3?
21 A It doesn't appear to be signed by
22 anyone.
23 Q Okay what does the stamp say or the
24 typewritten, these are bad copies or maybe not
25 copies but -- what does it say on the bottom of
25
1 the right hand --
2 A It says Macon E. Gooch III, Ga. P.E. No.
3 8889, ICC PEF002999, Residential Combination
4 Inspector.
5 Q That is good enough. Exhibit 20.
6 Please identify the best that you can.
7 A It is titled, Inspection Report
8 Details. The heading says, General. There is
9 another heading that says, Exterior.
10 Q Look at the top where it says record
11 number, McKinney. Does this appear as if it is
12 an inspection of the defendant's residence?
13 A What are you asking about the record
14 number? I don't understand what you are asking.
15 Q Would you read what it says up there
16 after the record number.
17 A It says record 0725062-McKinney, Ron,
18 4083 Red Laurel Way, Snellville, Georgia 30039.
19 Q Does this look like an inspection
20 report?
21 MS. TABOR: If you know.
22 THE WITNESS: I guess it does.
23 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
24 Q Let's move on to Exhibit 21. Please
25 identify that.
26
1 A This document is entitled, Champia Real
2 Estate Inspection Report, the date of inspection,
3 July 5, 2006.
4 Q Did you supply defendant with this
5 document? Did Insulated Wall Systems or
6 plaintiff's attorney?
7 A I believe so.
8 Q So you will agree that this is the real
9 estate inspection performed by someone on behalf
10 of plaintiff?
11 A I can just tell you what the document
12 says.
13 Q But you have seen this document before,
14 is that true?
15 A You are handing me a copy of something,
16 I can't say I have ever seen this copy before.
17 Q This is what you supplied me with was a
18 copy.
19 A It looks like it may well be a copy of
20 the original; but since I don't have the
21 original --
22 Q Let's move on. Exhibit 22. Could you
23 please identify that document.
24 A This document is titled, The Standards
25 of Practice and Code of Ethics of the American
27
1 Society of Home Inspectors.
2 Q Okay.
3 A Effective January 1, 2000.
4 Q That is good enough.
5 Exhibit 23, please identify that
6 document.
7 A This appears to be a copy of a letter
8 from Atrium Windows and Doors, dated
9 September 15, 2005 to the defendant and
10 Mrs. McKinney.
11 Q And it is from who, who signed the
12 letter?
13 A Apparently Chris Reilly. That is what
14 it says on the bottom of page 2.
15 Q Have you ever heard of Atrium?
16 A Yes, I have.
17 Q Who are they?
18 A They are a window manufacturer.
19 Q Do they manufacture the Windjammer
20 windows?
21 A To the best of my knowledge, yes.
22 Q And these are the windows that were
23 installed by plaintiff in defendant's residence?
24 MS. TABOR: Object to the form of the
25 question.
28
1 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
2 Q Were these the window manufacturer of
3 the windows that were installed in defendant's
4 residence?
5 A I believe so.
6 Q Exhibit 24.
7 A This document is entitled Sequoyah
8 Builders Inc./Sequoyah Vinyl Creations Inc. from
9 Canton, Georgia, period ending 8/28/06.
10 Q Does it have the word "statement" on it?
11 A Repeat the question.
12 Q Does it have the word "statement" on it?
13 A Yes, this page has the word "statement"
14 on it.
15 Q So does this look like a bill?
16 A I have no idea if it is a bill or what
17 it is.
18 Q Let's move on. You haven't seen this
19 document before?
20 MS. TABOR: Which document?
21 MR. MCKINNEY: Exhibit 24, the one he
22 was just looking at.
23 THE WITNESS: I don't have any
24 recollection of this.
25 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
29
1 Q Exhibit 25, have you ever seen that
2 document before?
3 A I don't recall seeing this document
4 before.
5 Q What does it look like to you? What
6 does it appear to be?
7 A The page is titled Hardscapes - Brian
8 Beaty, BrianHardscapes@yahoo.com, from Buford,
9 Georgia.
10 Q What does the document appear to be?
11 A It says, Bill/Quote, dated 8/14/05.
12 Q And what is the quote concerning?
13 A You want me to read this document to
14 you? It says customer, Ron McKinney.
15 Q Read the comment part.
16 A Comments, tear out existing concrete
17 slab/repour 14x19 w/footings, rebar, vapor
18 barrier, cost $2,800.
19 Q So it looks like a quote for tearing out
20 the slab and rebuilding it?
21 MS. TABOR: Object to the form of the
22 question.
23 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
24 Q Does it look like a quote for --
25 MS. TABOR: You can answer, if you know.
30
1 THE WITNESS: I don't know.
2 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
3 Q Exhibit 26, what does that appear to be?
4 A This document is titled, Sketch
5 Estimate, Decks by Jeff with a phone number, and
6 it appears to have a drawing, a rough drawing --
7 I am not sure what, it says "house," and there is
8 some other writing on it.
9 Q Does it look like a quote for a deck?
10 A I don't know what it is.
11 Q Look on the second page; does that look
12 like a receipt or invoice?
13 A I don't know what this is.
14 Q Does it say, remove and replace 10 by 20
15 deck, 2 landings and stairs, materials and labor,
16 $4,883.00?
17 A I suppose that is what it says.
18 Q Let's move on to the next one, 27. It
19 should be a booklet of 32 pages of photographs.
20 Is that what you see?
21 A It appears to be 32 pages of copies of
22 photographs.
23 Q Okay. Exhibit 28, can you identify that
24 document?
25 A This document appears to be a copy of a
31
1 paper with information from Ted Lansing
2 Corporation regarding high performance glass.
3 Q Is this concerning the Windjammer
4 windows?
5 A That appears to be the case.
6 Q And this is a product you sell or
7 Insulated Wall Systems sells; is that correct?
8 A Yes, we have.
9 MR. MCKINNEY: Would you mark that as
10 Exhibit 28A.
11 (Exhibit 28A was marked for
12 identification.)
13 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
14 Q I am handing you Exhibit 28A. Take a
15 look at that document.
16 A The document is entitled Windjammer
17 Series 60, vinyl replacement windows.
18 Q Is that a window that Insulated Wall
19 Systems sells?
20 A Yes, I have sold this window --
21 Insulated Wall Systems has sold this window.
22 Q Is Exhibit 28 the last page or the back
23 page of that?
24 A It seems to be.
25 Q Exhibit 29, read the first two lines for
32
1 identification purposes.
2 A The first two lines starting from the
3 top of the page, first line says, injury
4 damages. Second line says medical bill damages,
5 due to back injury.
6 Q Exhibit No. 30, can you identify that
7 document.
8 A This appears to be another copy of a
9 page with information on high performance glass
10 from Ted Lansing Corporation.
11 Q Are you looking at Exhibit 30?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Let's pull out Exhibit 31, what does
14 that look like?
15 A It appears to be a shipping invoice from
16 Ted Lansing Corporation.
17 Q Do you agree that that is the order
18 acknowledgement or the order that was sent to
19 defendant's residence, the materials that
20 Insulated Wall Systems ordered and sent to?
21 A It appears to be.
22 Q I will try to straighten the exhibit
23 number out, I am not sure what happened. Let's
24 move on to Exhibit 32. What does that appear to
25 be?
33
1 A It is titled Windjammer by Ted Lansing
2 Corporation, transferable lifetime limited
3 warranty replacement products.
4 Q So it looks like a warranty for
5 Windjammer windows?
6 A That's correct.
7 MR. MCKINNEY: Let's take a ten-minute
8 break.
9 (A recess was taken.)
10 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
11 Q If you would pull out Exhibit No. 2 and
12 Exhibit No. 4.
13 MS. TABOR: Before we go further, let me
14 ask a question on the record to the extent
15 you did not identify number 30 at all.
16 MR. MCKINNEY: Did I miss one?
17 MS. TABOR: You seem to have some
18 confusion about.
19 MR. MCKINNEY: Let's look at 30. Take a
20 look at Exhibit 30.
21 If you will mark this as Exhibit 30-A.
22 (Exhibit 30A was marked for
23 identification.)
24 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
25 Q Does Exhibit 30 appear to be the last
34
1 page of Series 40 which is Exhibit 30A --
2 MS. TABOR: I will object to the form of
3 the question to the extent that there has
4 been no identification of Exhibit 30A.
5 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
6 Q Would you identify Exhibit 30A.
7 A Exhibit 30A appears to be a brochure by
8 Windjammer Windows by Ted Lansing Corporation,
9 Series 40 Vinyl Replacement Windows.
10 Q Does Exhibit 30 look like a back page of
11 Exhibit 30A?
12 A It appears to be.
13 MR. MCKINNEY: I believe all the
14 exhibits have been identified.
15 MS. TABOR: I would like to make note
16 for the record that exhibits 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,
17 5A, 6, 6A, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 19, 20, 22, 23,
18 26, 27, 28, 28A, 29, 30, 30A, 31, and 32, no
19 testimony has been solicited with regard to
20 the deponent's personal knowledge of any of
21 these exhibits; and to the extent the
22 deponent has made any identification, it has
23 been a mere recitation of wording that
24 appeared on the document.
25 MR. MCKINNEY: Noted.
35
1 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
2 Q If you would pull out Exhibit 2 and
3 Exhibit 4 --
4 Let's go off the record.
5 (Off the record.)
6 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
7 Q Okay. Exhibit 2 and 4 you have out. Do
8 you have any personal knowledge of Exhibit 2?
9 A I have already identified it. I don't
10 know what you mean by personal knowledge.
11 MS. TABOR: I will object to the form of
12 the question.
13 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
14 Q Do you have any personal knowledge of
15 Exhibit 2?
16 MS. TABOR: Same objection.
17 MR. MCKINNEY: What is the objection?
18 MS. TABOR: Form of the question.
19 Vague.
20 MR. MCKINNEY: Vague?
21 MS. TABOR: Yes, sir. Do you have any
22 personal knowledge of the document.
23 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
24 Q Is this a document that Insulated Wall
25 Systems sent out in August of 2004?
36
1 A No.
2 Q July 2004?
3 A I don't know about the date. I can just
4 tell you that it wasn't sent out by Insulated
5 Wall Systems.
6 Q Do you have any knowledge of who sent it
7 out?
8 A Yes, I believe it was sent out by Mack
9 Hilton.
10 Q What is the return address, the name on
11 the front page of the postcard?
12 A Front page of the postcard says John
13 Tabor, 4169 Clairmont Road, Chamblee, Georgia
14 30341.
15 Q Is that you?
16 A What do you mean, is that me?
17 Q Is that your name and return address?
18 A That is my name and that return address
19 is for the office of Insulated Wall Systems.
20 Q Did you send out that postcard?
21 A No, I did not.
22 Q Did you write those words?
23 A I believe that is my handwriting.
24 Q And on the second page, did you write
25 these words?
37
1 A That appears to be my handwriting, yes.
2 Q Would you read the second paragraph,
3 third line.
4 A Second paragraph doesn't have a third
5 line.
6 Q Well, the third line down from the top,
7 second paragraph, where it starts, this year.
8 A It says, This year has been slow, and
9 I --
10 Q Second line after that, read the whole
11 sentence.
12 A This year has been slow, and I need work
13 for my people.
14 Q And you wrote that?
15 A That is my handwriting.
16 Q Was that the case when you wrote it?
17 A I suppose so.
18 Q So that year was 2004?
19 A Yes, it was the year 2004.
20 Q And you need work for your people at
21 that time?
22 A That is what it says.
23 Q Okay. Let's look at the third
24 paragraph, would you read that for me into the
25 record.
38
1 A I will give you the best discounts
2 you'll ever see on name brand products and
3 quality work. Satisfaction guaranteed; license
4 and insured, 100 percent financing.
5 Q What do you call this? I guess it is a
6 postcard. Is that what you identify it as, a
7 postcard?
8 A Yes, I would identify it as a postcard.
9 Q Would you identify it as some type of
10 advertising literature?
11 A Yes.
12 Q That originated from Insulated Wall
13 Systems?
14 A No, actually this was Mack Hilton's
15 design, it just happens to be in my handwriting,
16 I see it has his --
17 Q Is Mack Hilton's name on this document
18 at all?
19 A No, it is not.
20 Q What are the two names?
21 A His phone number is on the document,
22 that is how I know that it was directed from him.
23 MS. TABOR: Hold on. If you ask him a
24 question, let him answer.
25 MR. MCKINNEY: I'm sorry.
39
1 THE WITNESS: The name is not relevant.
2 How I know him is because that is his phone
3 number, that is not my phone number; so
4 therefore, he would be fielding any calls
5 that were generated from this advertisement.
6 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
7 Q What is the name at the bottom of the --
8 or right below your name, John Tabor, and the
9 phone number and 24 hours?
10 A The very last line on this postcard it
11 says, Insulated Wall Systems, Inc..
12 Q And right above that is your name?
13 A That's my name.
14 Q So one can -- this is advertising from
15 Insulated Wall Systems?
16 A No, this is advertising designed by Mack
17 Hilton.
18 Q Is this advertising -- so you are not
19 saying that this is advertising from Insulated
20 Wall Systems --
21 MS. TABOR: I will object to the form of
22 the question, because before it was for
23 Insulated Wall Systems, and now is it from
24 Insulated Wall Systems.
25 BY Mr. MCKINNEY:
40
1 Q Is this advertisement from Insulated
2 Wall Systems?
3 A I think I have answered that question,
4 no, I told you it was from Mack Hilton, that is
5 why his number is there, to field calls that
6 generated from this advertisement.
7 Q Is this advertisement for Insulated Wall
8 Systems?
9 A I believe he was doing it for Insulated
10 Wall Systems, yes.
11 Q Was he doing it under your control and
12 supervision?
13 A No.
14 Q Does Insulated Wall Systems offer best
15 discounts on name brand products?
16 A I think Insulated Wall Systems always
17 offers good value for the money. I have a long
18 history of doing that and was doing that in 2004
19 and it does that today.
20 Q Does Insulated Wall Systems give you the
21 best discounts you will ever see on name brand
22 products?
23 MS. TABOR: I object to the question to
24 the extent it is asked and answered.
25 MR. MCKINNEY: No, ma'am, he answered
41
1 another question.
2 MS. TABOR: Okay, restate your question.
3 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
4 Q Does Insulated Wall Systems offer the
5 best discounts you will ever see on name brand
6 products?
7 A Like I said, I think Insulated Wall
8 Systems always offers good discounts on name
9 brand products. Always has and always will.
10 Q Does Insulated Wall Systems offer
11 quality work?
12 A Insulated Wall Systems offers quality
13 work, absolutely.
14 Q How do you define quality?
15 A Get a dictionary and look it up.
16 Q So you are using the customary
17 definition of quality?
18 A That's correct.
19 MR. MCKINNEY: Off the record.
20 (Off the record.)
21 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
22 Q What is your definition of quality?
23 A I think the word speaks for itself.
24 Q Again, I will ask the question, what is
25 your definition of quality when it's used as an
42
1 adjective?
2 A Quality is quality. I don't think the
3 word needs any further definition.
4 Q I am asking you for your definition of
5 quality and you refuse to answer the question?
6 A Give me a dictionary and I will read you
7 the definition of quality.
8 Q I have the definition of quality if you
9 want to accept that. I didn't happen to bring my
10 dictionary here, but I will happily read it to
11 you and see if you agree; how about that
12 approach?
13 A Are you testifying?
14 Q No.
15 MS. TABOR: You need to ask a proper
16 question.
17 MR. MCKINNEY: I am.
18 MS. TABOR: No, you are not. You are
19 getting closer.
20 Do you want to ask him the definition of
21 "quality" and see if he agrees with you.
22 MR. MCKINNEY: That is what I was about
23 to do.
24 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
25 Q Quality, when used as an adjective, in
43
1 my opinion means having a high degree of
2 excellence. Do you agree with that?
3 A Sure.
4 Q Here we go again, give me your
5 definition of "satisfaction guaranteed."
6 A Satisfaction guaranteed, simply that,
7 assuming you are a reasonable person, you would
8 be satisfied with the quality of the work that
9 has been performed. It is based on a standard of
10 reasonableness.
11 Q Here again, I have a definition of
12 satisfaction and I will tell it to you. It is,
13 fulfillment or gratification of a desire, need or
14 appetite.
15 A If that seems to be the textbook
16 definition, fine.
17 Q Guarantee, what is your definition of
18 guarantee?
19 A Like I just said, I explained
20 satisfaction guaranteed. You need to read it
21 altogether.
22 Q I am asking you your definition of
23 satisfaction guaranteed.
24 A Satisfaction guaranteed, something that
25 a reasonable person would be satisfied with the
44
1 results.
2 Q Guaranteed uses a noun, according to my
3 understanding is something that assures a
4 particular outcome or condition. Do you agree
5 with that?
6 A Here again, I don't have the dictionary,
7 but I assume that is your definition from the
8 dictionary, that is fine with me.
9 Q What is your definition of licensed as
10 used in this?
11 A It means I have a business, that
12 Insulated Wall Systems has a business license.
13 Q Does that mean you are licensed as a
14 contractor?
15 A I just said it is a business license.
16 Q How about the definition of insured?
17 MS. TABOR: I will object to the
18 question, to the extent that the deposition
19 notice that was sent here today and did not
20 specify insurance as one of the areas to
21 which the deponent would be asked.
22 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
23 Q Corporate history, corporate services --
24 corporate services would include insurance?
25 MS. TABOR: Mr. McKinney, you can argue
45
1 with me if you want.
2 MR. MCKINNEY: We can go before the
3 judge.
4 MS. TABOR: What part of your claim has
5 anything to do with insurance? You don't
6 have an insurance claim. Stick to what
7 you're complaining about.
8 MR. MCKINNEY: We are talking about the
9 advertising.
10 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
11 Q Are you advertising that Insulated Wall
12 Systems is insured?
13 MS. TABOR: Same objection.
14 MR. MCKINNEY: Noted.
15 Please answer the question.
16 THE WITNESS: The document speaks for
17 itself.
18 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
19 Q What does "insured" mean in reference to
20 this document?
21 MS. TABOR: Same objection.
22 MR. MCKINNEY: Noted.
23 THE WITNESS: We just covered that.
24 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
25 Q What does "insured" mean in the context
46
1 of this document?
2 MS. TABOR: Same objection.
3 MR. MCKINNEY: Noted. Answer the
4 question.
5 MS. TABOR: He doesn't have to answer.
6 If you would like to go to Judge Davis
7 and explain to him what you need to know
8 about the insurance --
9 MR. MCKINNEY: I have a claim of fraud
10 and inducement; and one of those inducements
11 is that he's insured and he provides
12 liability insurance; so I would be happy to
13 go to Judge Davis.
14 MS. TABOR: I am instructing him not to
15 answer the question, and you need to move on.
16 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
17 Q What does 100 percent financing mean?
18 A 100 percent financing means that
19 Insulated Wall Systems has arrangements with
20 different financial institutions whereby we can
21 direct customers to these financial institutions
22 to determine their creditworthiness in order for
23 the lending institution to make a loan to the
24 customer so that they can pay for the services
25 rendered by Insulated Wall Systems.
47
1 Q Do you require a banking license to do
2 any of that?
3 A No.
4 Q Do you have a banking license or does
5 Insulated Wall Systems have a banking license?
6 MS. TABOR: When?
7 MR. MCKINNEY: During the time the
8 contract was signed.
9 THE WITNESS: In 2004, I would have to
10 check the records and see. I am not really
11 sure. Because for a number of years,
12 Insulated Wall Systems was licensed as a
13 mortgage broker with the Department of
14 Banking and Finance, however --
15 MS. TABOR: Insulated Wall Systems or
16 you personally?
17 THE WITNESS: Actually, it was me
18 personally. I was licensed as a mortgage
19 broker, and I can't tell you whether that was
20 continued through 2004, because beginning in
21 2002 or 2003, as the interest rates dropped
22 substantially in the mortgage arena, the
23 demand for secondary financing sources that I
24 referred people to diminished greatly.
25 Then around that time, I decided to
48
1 discontinue the renewal of my mortgage
2 broker's license, and I can't tell you
3 whether that was 2003 or 2004. There was a
4 lot of changes in the industry.
5 The only time a mortgage broker's
6 license was required was for loans that
7 required a deed to secure debt therefore
8 creating a lien against the property, subject
9 to nonjudicial foreclosure.
10 There was a legislation past in the
11 Georgia Assembly restricting the rights of
12 these various lenders to do business in the
13 State of Georgia.
14 So therefore, around this period of
15 time, a lot of those lenders either closed up
16 shop or else they changed their method of
17 securing the loans from a deed to secure debt
18 to simply a UCC contract --
19 MR. MCKINNEY: Let me stop you right
20 there. That is sufficient.
21 MS. TABOR: You can't do that
22 Mr. McKinney. That is not how we play this
23 game.
24 You asked a question, he gets to
25 pontificate.
49
1 MR. MCKINNEY: Tell me the question that
2 I asked.
3 (Question read back.)
4 MR. MCKINNEY: It was a yes or no.
5 MS. TABOR: The deponent decides how to
6 answer the question.
7 THE WITNESS: Can you read back where I
8 left off.
9 (Answer read back.)
10 THE WITNESS: The reason they did such
11 was for several reasons, but number one, it
12 was to avoid the need for a mortgage broker's
13 license, here again, the State of Georgia
14 passed legislation that restricted the
15 ability of these lenders to do so.
16 So all this goes to answering your
17 question about the 100 percent financing and
18 whether or not a mortgage broker's -- at this
19 time, I am explaining why I don't remember
20 the exact date.
21 I quit renewing my mortgage broker's
22 license for all the reasons I just outlined.
23 As long as you are doing the financing and
24 you are not using a deed to secure debt or
25 putting a lien on these people's property,
50
1 then no license to be a mortgage broker is
2 required.
3 So there was a big change in the
4 industry around that time 2003, 2004, and so
5 that is the best I can answer your question?
6 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
7 Q Let's move on to Exhibit 2 and Exhibit
8 4.
9 Would you agree that Exhibit 2 is just
10 advertising, marketing?
11 A The postcard, yes, it is.
12 Q And would you agree that a sensible or
13 reasonable person would look for each one of the
14 promises in Exhibit 4, which is a contract?
15 A I think a reasonable person would be
16 able to read this and see it for what it is,
17 simply literature to solicit business, plain and
18 simple.
19 Q Exhibit 2, the second page.
20 MS. TABOR: I am clarifying when you
21 look at this, you are speaking of two
22 exhibits.
23 MR. MCKINNEY: I thought I said Exhibit
24 2.
25 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
51
1 Q And if you would look at Exhibit 2 and 4
2 and look for the items that are in Exhibit 2 and
3 Exhibit 4.
4 A I don't understand your question.
5 Q Well, if this is advertising literature,
6 then, for it to be honest advertising, wouldn't
7 one look for those items in the contract?
8 A No, I don't necessarily think you would
9 need to reprint everything that is in the
10 advertising postcard onto a work contract.
11 Q I didn't ask that.
12 Would you look for the principles or the
13 concepts in the contract.
14 A That doesn't make any sense to me. But
15 for re-writing it, I don't know what you mean.
16 Q If you are offering best discounts in
17 your advertisement on brand name products, could
18 you find brand name products in the contract?
19 A Well let's look at the contract.
20 Windjammer is a name brand product.
21 Q So you would agree that that is one that
22 meets -- that the contract meets; is that
23 correct?
24 A I'm not saying meets anything.
25 Q Well there are name brand products in
52
1 the contract; is that correct? And your
2 advertisement advertises name brand products?
3 A That's correct.
4 Q And you would say -- there is a dollar
5 amount in this contract, and it could represent
6 best discounts on those name brand products?
7 A Are you asking a hypothetical question.
8 Q No, I am asking you, could it?
9 MS. TABOR: That is a hypothetical
10 question.
11 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
12 Q Let's move to the next one, quality
13 work. Are their statements in the contract that
14 go to the quality or nature of the work?
15 A Contract simply states in detail what
16 will be done to the property.
17 Q Do you see the sentence that says,
18 contractor agrees to do all the work in a good
19 and workmanlike manner?
20 A Yes, I see that.
21 Q What does that mean to you?
22 A Exactly what it says.
23 Q What is the standard of good and
24 workmanlike?
25 A That means it is done correctly in
53
1 accordance with standards in the industry.
2 Q And what are those standards in the
3 industry?
4 A That it is done in a good and
5 workmanlike manner.
6 Q Does good and workmanlike mean it is
7 done with a code?
8 A No there is no code. It simply means it
9 will be done in a fashion that is in accordance
10 with standards in the industry when it's
11 installed on the house.
12 Q Is there a construction code for any
13 part of the work that was done on Defendant's
14 residence?
15 A There are construction codes from coast
16 to coast.
17 MR. MCKINNEY: I didn't ask him that.
18 MS. TABOR: I object to the extent,
19 Mr. McKinney --
20 MR. MCKINNEY: I asked a question and
21 then he changes it when he doesn't like the
22 answer.
23 Let me strike it and rephrase it.
24 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
25 Q Are there construction codes within
54
1 Gwinnett County that govern the construction of
2 any aspect of the work that plaintiff did on
3 defendant's residence?
4 A Here again, there are lots of different
5 construction codes, not only with Gwinnett
6 County, but city and towns.
7 MR. MCKINNEY: Move to strike.
8 Nonresponsive.
9 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
10 Q The question was within Gwinnett
11 County -- are there construction codes within
12 Gwinnett County that govern the construction of
13 any aspect of the work that plaintiff did on
14 defendant's house?
15 A I was answering your question when you
16 interrupted me. I told you there are codes in
17 Gwinnett County and within the cities within
18 Gwinnett County.
19 MR. MCKINNEY: Move to strike as
20 nonresponsive.
21 MS. TABOR: Off the record.
22 (Off the record.)
23 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
24 Q Are there any construction codes that
25 cover any aspect of the work within Gwinnett
55
1 County that cover the actual work that you do
2 that Insulated Wall Systems does?
3 A For the third time, I am familiar with
4 codes that Gwinnett County has, and there are
5 many codes is my point.
6 There are codes not just within Gwinnett
7 County, but within the cities and municipalities,
8 townships and whatnot, and I am sure that there
9 are codes that cover some of the work that was
10 done on your house. That is probably true.
11 Q Did you make any commitment to build in
12 accordance with that code?
13 A There was no specific code that was
14 referenced on any of these documents, no.
15 Q Let's move to, if you will add to your
16 pile, Exhibit number 5 and 5A.
17 Is there any part of the construction
18 that is covered by those codes, that code?
19 A I don't know. I haven't read this
20 entire document. And it is a document that
21 apparently has a hundred pages.
22 Q Did you make any commitment to meet that
23 code on any of the construction work --
24 A No, I didn't reference this code on any
25 material.
56
1 Q Did you tell defendant or defendant's
2 spouse or anyone else you were talking to that
3 the work would meet Gwinnett County construction
4 codes?
5 A Did I verbally tell anyone that?
6 Q Yes.
7 A No.
8 Q Did you make any reference whatsoever to
9 any codes or any standard of work?
10 A Nothing more than what is put on the
11 contract, that is why the contract says, no
12 verbal agreements recognized. Everything spelled
13 out on the document was to be done to the house.
14 Q Does good and workmanlike mean to any
15 code or not?
16 A It doesn't specifically reference any
17 code, no.
18 Q Okay. What does the sentence where it
19 says on Exhibit 4, Contractor will do all said
20 work in strict accordance with the ordinances,
21 rules and requirements of the city, town, village
22 wherein the above mentioned property is located.
23 What does that sentence mean?
24 A They simply require that as boiler plate
25 language, and that is the reason that is on this
57
1 contract.
2 Q What does it mean?
3 A Well you just read it.
4 Q What does it mean to you?
5 A That we are not going to do anything
6 that is outside the scope of what is normal and
7 standard practices in this industry for any work
8 that is being done to the home.
9 Here again, it goes back to the issue of
10 all the different rules and regulations from
11 county, city, towns, villages and whatnot, there
12 are different building codes and requirements for
13 new construction versus remodeling; and to the
14 best of my knowledge, any rules or requirements
15 by the city, town or village that would affect
16 any of the work done at your house is not
17 enforced.
18 It would be kind of like the 55 mile an
19 hour speed limit on 285; it may be on the books
20 somewhere, but for all practical purposes, it's
21 voluntary. There are no rules and requirements
22 for the work that was done, other than what the
23 manufacturer requires to be done in accordance
24 with their standards, which I think are the most
25 important.
58
1 Q You have got me confused. What do you
2 mean by the 55 mile an hour? It says, Contractor
3 will do all said work in strict accordance
4 with --
5 A I was explaining what it meant to me and
6 I explained it to you.
7 Q So are you saying that it means that
8 there may be rules, but Insulated Wall Systems
9 doesn't have to follow them. Is that what I am
10 understanding?
11 A That is not what I said.
12 Q Repeat what you said.
13 A I said that there are so many rules and
14 regulations in various jurisdictions, that nobody
15 can possibly keep the ball in line; and the fact
16 is, if there are any rules and requirements,
17 specifically covered work down to your house,
18 they are never enforced; because here again, it
19 has more to do with what is required by the
20 manufacturer regarding the installation of their
21 products; and most people working for the cities
22 or towns or villages don't seem to have a good
23 grasp of that.
24 Q All right. Let's move on.
25 The next sentence down says, We carry
59
1 adequate insurance to protect our customers
2 against injuries to our workman or the public.
3 This is where the insurance comes in.
4 Could you explain what insurance that is?
5 A We have already discussed that.
6 Q Not in light of the contract. So please
7 answer the question.
8 A Is it the same objection?
9 MS. TABOR: Just answer the question.
10 It is irrelevant, but just answer the
11 question.
12 THE WITNESS: We carry adequate
13 insurance to protect our customers against
14 injuries to our workman or the public during
15 the performances of our contract.
16 Here again, this is more boiler plate
17 language that is required by the financial
18 institutions who are making these contracts
19 part of their record. That is the reason
20 that that is there.
21 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
22 Q Does plaintiff have any general
23 liability insurance that that sentence covers or
24 any insurance at all?
25 MS. TABOR: Again, to the extent that
60
1 you are asking that question in the abstract,
2 I object. This witness is not here to answer
3 questions about insurance.
4 MR. MCKINNEY: He is here to answer
5 questions.
6 MS. TABOR: If you have a question as to
7 insurance --
8 MR. MCKINNEY: Does Insulated Wall
9 Systems carry adequate insurance to protect
10 customers?
11 MS. TABOR: That is not related to this
12 contract, sir. I object to that question.
13 MR. MCKINNEY: How can it not be? It
14 says, and I quote, We carry adequate
15 insurance to protect our customers against
16 injuries to our workman or the public during
17 the performances of our contract.
18 MS. TABOR: In relation to this
19 contract, what was your question?
20 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
21 Q Do you carry adequate insurance?
22 MS. TABOR: I have an objection to the
23 extent whether or not insurance is in place
24 today is irrelevant.
25 MR. MCKINNEY: At the time of the
61
1 contract.
2 THE WITNESS: My subcontractors are
3 required to carry their own Workers' Comp
4 insurance, and Insulated Wall Systems carries
5 a general liability policy, and that is
6 exactly what was in place in 2004.
7 I would have to check my records.
8 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
9 Q Would you please provide that
10 insurance -- have you provided that to defendant?
11 MR. MCKINNEY: I am making a discovery
12 request that I want the insurance mentioned
13 in this --
14 MS. TABOR: You have made that request,
15 and to the extent we have responded, we are
16 not going to respond again. It is
17 irrelevant.
18 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
19 Q Isn't it a fact that you didn't have any
20 insurance at the time this contract was signed,
21 Insulated Wall Systems?
22 MS. TABOR: I think he testified he
23 didn't know what he had.
24 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
25 Q He didn't know what insurance he had.
62
1 A I already explained it to you.
2 MS. TABOR: He already testified.
3 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
4 Q Let's move on.
5 Tell me what the sentence right after,
6 Contractor agrees to do all work in a good and
7 workmanlike manner. The acknowledgement and
8 completion of the work -- would you read that
9 sentence into the record.
10 A What sentence do you want read?
11 Q Start with the word, The acknowledgement
12 of the completion of the work.
13 A The acknowledgement of the completion of
14 the work, signed by the owners of said premises,
15 shall be sufficient notice that this contract has
16 been satisfactorily completed by the contractor
17 on the date thereof in accordance with terms of
18 this contract.
19 Q Tell me your understanding or Insulated
20 Wall Systems' understanding of that particular
21 sentence.
22 A Here again, that is a sentence that is
23 required by the financial institution that
24 provides the financing. They require a
25 completion certificate to be signed by the
63
1 customer before they would release the funds to
2 Insulated Wall Systems.
3 So that is the only relevance of that
4 sentence.
5 Q So it is a completion certificate, that
6 is what you said?
7 A As a general rule, they would have a
8 document that would be titled a completion
9 certificate or something to that effect; but here
10 again, would be part of the documentation for the
11 loan that was prepared by the lending institution
12 and presented to the customer before the funding
13 of the loan.
14 Q Isn't it a fact that the lending
15 institution would not release the funds until
16 that document is signed?
17 MS. TABOR: In what case?
18 MR. MCKINNEY: Whatever case it applies
19 to. That is what he just got through saying.
20 MS. TABOR: Are you asking as a general
21 rule?
22 MR. MCKINNEY: As a general rule. I was
23 just reiterating the facts.
24 Go back to where he is testifying as to
25 the meaning of that sentence.
64
1 Did he say something about the funds not
2 being released?
3 (Answer read back.)
4 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
5 Q Signed by a --
6 A What is your question?
7 Q My question is, I want to reiterate, it
8 is a completion certificate, that is a fact?
9 MS. TABOR: I will object to that.
10 There is no question there. What is your
11 question?
12 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
13 Q My question is, are the funds released
14 until -- the funds are not released until a
15 document is signed?
16 MS. TABOR: What situation?
17 MR. MCKINNEY: In the situation he was
18 just referring to. He is the one that said
19 it.
20 THE WITNESS: Well, this doesn't have
21 any bearing on the contract at hand, because
22 we weren't arranging financing for you the
23 defendant.
24 If you are asking in the great scheme of
25 things as a general rule of thumb, my
65
1 recollection is, most lenders require a
2 signed completion certificate as part of
3 their lending portfolio, in addition to all
4 the other loan documents that are prepared by
5 the bank -- the right to rescission, the
6 interest rate, and the other required
7 documentation had to be submitted as a
8 package before the funds are released to the
9 lender.
10 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
11 Q So my understanding to your response,
12 and I will ask you to agree after this --
13 MS. TABOR: He can't agree to your
14 understanding. Objection. He can't testify
15 as to your --
16 MR. MCKINNEY: I am not.
17 MS. TABOR: You just said -- ask the
18 question.
19 MR. MCKINNEY: I will ask him if he
20 agrees with it or not at the end is my point.
21 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
22 Q Did you say this sentence didn't apply?
23 A It has no application to this particular
24 contract.
25 Q Do you ever cross this sentence out on
66
1 any of the contracts?
2 A Usually I do.
3 Q On finance sales?
4 A What do you mean?
5 Q Well you have testified in the past, I
6 think in the interrogatories, that this sentence
7 only applies to finance sales; is that correct?
8 A That's correct.
9 Q So that whole paragraph which you
10 scribbled out at the top has to do with finance
11 sales, you didn't scribble out that particular
12 sentence.
13 A That is true, I didn't scribble out that
14 particular sentence, just the area above it.
15 Q And you don't scribble it out because
16 why?
17 A Not to make a mess of the contract, I
18 suppose.
19 Q So this particular sentence has nothing
20 to do with satisfaction guaranteed, is that what
21 you are testifying to?
22 A I don't know how to explain it any
23 better than I already have. It is part of the
24 documents that is provided by the financial
25 institutions.
67
1 Q Did he ever state to defendant or anyone
2 associated with defendant in this case that no
3 payment was due until work was done to the
4 satisfaction of the customer?
5 A That is the general rule of Insulated
6 Wall Systems is not to require payment before the
7 completion of the work.
8 Q Let's go back to that. Let's see, that
9 part of the contract says, All of the above work
10 for the total sum is payable in cash upon
11 completion of the work --
12 A Where are you?
13 Q Right in the middle of the page, Exhibit
14 4.
15 MS. TABOR: Page 1?
16 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
17 Q Page 3. It is the same on each page?
18 A No, it is different on each page.
19 Q The pre-printed form?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Read where it starts off, all the above
22 work.
23 A All of the above work to be done for the
24 total sum of 16,000 even.
25 Q The next sentence?
68
1 A Payable in cash, net upon completion of
2 the work.
3 Q Who defines completion of the work
4 according to this contract?
5 A Reasonable people.
6 Q And who may that be in this particular
7 case?
8 A Me.
9 Q So the contract states that it is a
10 unilateral decision on your part?
11 A The contract doesn't specify. It just
12 says the amount is due upon completion of the
13 work. We completed the work; so at that time,
14 the money is due. It is very simple.
15 Q But according to your testimony, you are
16 the decider?
17 A I said reasonable people.
18 Q Did you tell defendant or anyone
19 associated with defendant that there would be a
20 walk through, a punch list created?
21 A Did I tell anyone that?
22 Q Yes.
23 A No.
24 Q So you didn't tell defendant that there
25 would be a walk through when you decided that
69
1 work was completed, that we would look at
2 everything?
3 A No.
4 Q And there would be a punch list created?
5 A No. Typically my crews finish a job,
6 they have done it, done it correctly; and
7 reasonable people understand that and they pay
8 what they owe.
9 Q I continue to hear this word
10 "reasonable." What does that mean to you?
11 A I think that normal people understand
12 that word.
13 Q I am asking for your definition of
14 reasonable.
15 A A reasonable person would be one who
16 understands that the work is done in a correct
17 fashion and pays what they owe. That is what a
18 reasonable person does.
19 Q In light of this work contracted for by
20 defendant; correct?
21 A It means it is installed the way it was
22 spelled out in the contract. The contract tells
23 you what is going to be done. Once that is done,
24 it is done the way it is contracted to be done.
25 Q By what standards?
70
1 A The standards that are outlined in the
2 contract.
3 Q Would that mean any codes, any
4 construction codes?
5 A I just told you, what is on the
6 contract.
7 Q Would that be according to any
8 manufacturer's specifications?
9 A It is important to do that, certainly.
10 Q Okay, for load bearing items, such as
11 the slab and the deck, what manufacturer's
12 specifications would you use?
13 MS. TABOR: Object to the form of the
14 question.
15 MR. MCKINNEY: Okay. I will rephrase.
16 MS. TABOR: It is a compound question.
17 MR. MCKINNEY: I will rephrase the
18 question.
19 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
20 Q Under what standards was the slab
21 constructed?
22 A The slab was constructed under the
23 standards I wrote on the contract. It is clearly
24 explained to you how it would be installed and
25 what the cost would be to the slab, and that it
71
1 was done as a favor to you since you cried about
2 how little money you had, and you really wanted a
3 slab; and I explained to you what would be done
4 to pour a simple slab that would meet your
5 budget, and I did it at cost for you.
6 Q Is it your testimony that I revealed my
7 financial situation or defendant revealed his
8 financial situation to you?
9 A Absolutely, yes, repeatedly, you
10 repeatedly told me you hadn't worked in ten years
11 and you didn't have any money and you listened to
12 the Clark Howard Show and you agreed with his
13 suggestion that it was always more important for
14 you to take lower quality for a lower price, the
15 price was the utmost concern to you.
16 Q Do you have any facts or evidence to
17 support this?
18 A I remember it very clearly.
19 Q Do you have any other facts, anything
20 other than your testimony?
21 A I don't think I need anything else.
22 MR. MCKINNEY: Let's take a break and go
23 to lunch.
24 (A lunch recess was taken at
25 12:04 p.m.)
72
1 (Deposition resumed at 12:40 p.m.)
2 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
3 Q If you would pull out Exhibit 4, and
4 turn to page 3. Would you read into the record
5 where it says the handwritten, pour slab.
6 A Pour slab on back of house approximately
7 14 feet deep away from house and approximately 19
8 feet wide. Smooth finish, customer to remove
9 shrubs first.
10 Q Is it reasonable for defendant to expect
11 a smooth finish?
12 A It would be reasonable to expect that
13 until you went in and changed and put a drain in
14 the center of the slab, so then it became nearly
15 impossible to put a smooth finish on the slab.
16 Q How is that the case?
17 A Well, there is nothing in here about
18 putting a drain in it; when you put a drain in
19 the center and attempted to slope the concrete
20 toward the drain, you complicated it and you were
21 doing something that wasn't provided for in the
22 contract.
23 Q I still do not understand, maybe again
24 explain it, how that prevented a smooth surface.
25 A You put a hole in the middle of it. You
73
1 ran a pipe through it you cut a hole through the
2 supports that were supporting the concrete.
3 There was never any agreement to do such a
4 thing. You went in and molested what we were
5 doing, and therefore what you did, it affected
6 the finish and it affected the strength of the
7 form that was used to support it.
8 Q Isn't a smooth finish done just with a
9 trowel?
10 A I can't explain to you better than I
11 just did.
12 Q Isn't it true that your worker,
13 plaintiff's workers did not bring a trowel?
14 A All I can tell you is that my workers
15 were prepared to put a smooth finish on it until
16 you tampered with a product by putting a drain in
17 the center of the slab, and then you complicated
18 things and then you demanded that they do
19 additional work to correct your mistakes.
20 Q Is it your position that plaintiff's
21 workers brought everything they needed to do the
22 job?
23 A That is my -- yes, they did. They
24 brought everything they needed to do it.
25 Q Who provided the wheelbarrow?
74
1 A I don't have any knowledge of a
2 wheelbarrow.
3 Q Who provided the shovels?
4 A I don't know any anything about any
5 shovels.
6 Q Did your workers bring a broom?
7 A I don't know exactly what they had on
8 the job site. I wasn't there when they got
9 started.
10 Q So you can't testify that they brought
11 everything to do the job?
12 A I didn't say that. I think they had
13 everything they needed to do the job whether, you
14 actually provided them some additional tools
15 probably to do extra work that you hadn't
16 contracted for, then they might have needed your
17 tools, but with you changing the terms of the
18 contract and changing the specs of the work they
19 would have performed.
20 Q So it is your position then or Insulated
21 Wall Systems' position then that whatever you say
22 I did, prevented you from doing a smooth surface?
23 A I just testified that yes, you
24 complicated things, you demanded something that
25 wasn't in the contract and you changed the terms
75
1 of the contract.
2 Q Did you discuss that with me before the
3 pour -- did you discuss this change in the
4 contract with the defendant before the pour of
5 the concrete?
6 A No, you are the one that changed the
7 terms right there on the job site. You
8 repeatedly changed the terms of the contract.
9 You repeatedly gave my workers instruction to do
10 things they were not required to do.
11 Q What instructions do you give to your
12 workers when a customer asks for something
13 different?
14 A If a customer asks for something
15 different, then quite often my workers are
16 trained to try and accommodate the customer the
17 best they see fit. Now, for most customers, it
18 may be just a very small change to what they are
19 doing; but in your situation, your requests were
20 unreasonable, they were way beyond the scope of
21 what we had contracted to do and therefore it
22 made it very difficult for my employees on site
23 to attempt to make any changes that would satisfy
24 you.
25 Q Did your workers stop work and consult
76
1 with you prior to continuing with the pour of the
2 slab?
3 A I don't specifically recall any one
4 instance where they stopped work on the slab.
5 There is nothing I remember about them stopping
6 work on the slab.
7 Q Is it reasonable for a defendant to
8 expect the slab to be square, rectangle?
9 A It would have been rectangle. It would
10 be reasonable to expect that, except for the fact
11 that you had gone in and cut a hole through the
12 supports that were holding up the concrete.
13 Q Now, how many holes did supposedly
14 defendant cut?
15 A There was at least one large hole that I
16 witnessed.
17 Q And that prevented the slab from being
18 square; is that your testimony?
19 A It weakened the supports that they
20 installed to the point that it caused it to bow
21 out.
22 Q Who did that hole?
23 A It was done at your direction. Whether
24 you helped them do it or had them do it, I'm not
25 quite sure. It wasn't part of our contract. It
77
1 was never agreed to, and it was something that
2 you arbitrarily added and forced them to do.
3 Q Isn't it true your worker cut the hole?
4 A I just explained that to you.
5 Q I just asked a question.
6 A I wasn't there. I didn't witness it.
7 All I know is it was at your direction.
8 Q Isn't it true that your workers should
9 have the knowledge to know how to shore up
10 concrete in a form?
11 A My workers have the knowledge to do what
12 they set out to do. Unfortunately, when you
13 intervened and gave them instructions, they
14 simply did the best they could to accommodate
15 you.
16 Q Is it reasonable for a defendant to
17 expect a straight and level slab?
18 A Within the guidelines in the industry,
19 yes, but I would say straight and level, here
20 again, that to the extent that you come in and
21 change things and damage the supports for the
22 concrete.
23 Q Have you actually measured the slab?
24 A No, I have not actually measured the
25 slab.
78
1 Q You have testified or at least responded
2 to an interrogatory that defendant made you aware
3 of the purpose of the slab.
4 Do you recall what that purpose is?
5 A The best of my recollection was that you
6 wanted to put a simple, little screen porch.
7 That was always your dream to have a little,
8 simple screen porch, shed roof and screen walls
9 at some point in the future.
10 Q Is it reasonable for a defendant to
11 expect a slab that will support a structure?
12 A The slab that was poured was designed to
13 support what we had agreed, what would eventually
14 be supported.
15 Q Let's go to Exhibit 19 and 20. Have you
16 read these reports concerning the slab aspect of
17 it? Let's just focus on the slab right now.
18 A I may have read it at some point.
19 MS. TABOR: Which one?
20 MR. MCKINNEY: Both of them.
21 MS. TABOR: Okay. When you say, I may
22 have read some aspect of it, which report are
23 you referring to?
24 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
25 Q Let's refer to Exhibit 19. Have you
79
1 read that report as it relates to the slab?
2 A I may have some time ago.
3 Q And how about Exhibit 20, have you read
4 that report as it relates to the slab?
5 A Here again, I may have some time ago.
6 Q Do you have any facts or evidence or
7 reports that contradict either one of these
8 reports or what they are saying in terms of the
9 slab?
10 A Well, let me reread it.
11 MR. MCKINNEY: Let's go off the record
12 while you read it.
13 (Off the record.)
14 THE WITNESS: What was your question?
15 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
16 Q Do you have any facts or evidence to
17 contradict what is said about the slab in these
18 reports?
19 A I can just tell you the slab that you
20 got is the slab you contracted for. I did
21 exactly what I told you we would do regardless of
22 what these reports say. They are irrelevant to
23 the facts at hand. You got what I told you you
24 would get, and that is the bottom line.
25 Q So the answer to the question is no?
80
1 A That was not my answer.
2 Q Well, I will ask it again.
3 Do you have any facts or evidence to
4 contradict what is said about the slab in these
5 reports?
6 A Not other than what I just said.
7 Q Okay. Is it reasonable for a defendant
8 to want, desire, expect from this contract, a
9 slab that would support a structure as he has
10 related it to you?
11 A Repeat the question.
12 Q Is it reasonable for defendant to expect
13 the slab that would support the structure?
14 A What structure?
15 Q The structure that you just described.
16 A A simple screen porch?
17 Q Uh-huh.
18 A I think so, yes.
19 Q And you will note on Exhibit 19, where
20 on the second paragraph, last sentence that this
21 slab as constructed cannot be used for its
ded purposes. Do you read that?
23 A I don't know what you are asking me.
24 Are you asking me, is that what that document
25 says?
81
1 Q Is that what that document says?
2 A I don't understand your question. Are
3 you testifying as to what this document says?
4 Are you asking me? What is your question?
5 Q Well, my question is, is it reasonable
6 for me to expect a slab that would support a
7 structure?
8 A And I asked you what kind of structure.
9 Q The structure that you described.
10 A I believe you can put a screened-in
11 porch on the slab that was constructed, yes.
12 Q Do you think there was any danger of it
13 sinking?
14 A I don't think so. It's been there for
15 years. It doesn't seem to be sinking. It seems
16 fine to me, but the point here is that we poured
17 the slab exactly the way we told you we were
18 going to pour it.
19 Q What is your qualifications to speak to
20 contract work?
21 A I don't understand your question.
22 Q What is your qualifications to speak to
23 the structure integrity of the concrete slab?
24 A I can just tell you, as I told you the
25 day we entered into this contract, that my
82
1 company is not in the business of pouring
2 concrete slabs, never has been. And I explained
3 to you very clearly, I had handymen that had
4 worked for me on properties that I owned that had
5 done things like poured slabs, extended driveways
6 and such.
7 And I said as a favor to you, I would be
8 more than willing to have one of those guys pour
9 this little slab that you so desperately want,
10 and I will do it for you at cost; and I explained
11 the cost of the concrete alone would be about
12 $1,000, and maybe a few hundred dollars for the
13 labor to frame it up and set it for you. And I
14 left it at that.
15 You seemed to indicate that is precisely
16 what you wanted, that was all good for you, so
17 that is what we did.
18 Q Did you make any notations in the
19 contract that we were changing the standard of
20 work?
21 A I don't believe we changed the standard
22 of work.
23 Q So is the standard of work professional,
24 good and workmanlike?
25 A Here again, you got exactly what I told
83
1 you we would give you. For the amount of money
2 you were charged for that slab, you got exactly
3 what you paid for. You didn't pay for these
4 additional things -- you can pour a slab that
5 will support a skyscraper if you wish. However
6 that is not what you paid for. That is not what
7 our understanding is. You got exactly what I
8 told you you would get.
9 Q Was the understanding for a structure,
10 though?
11 A I have said repeatedly I understood that
12 there was to be a screened porch, a very simple
13 screened porch at some point in the future.
14 Q Let's move on to the deck. Well, let me
15 see if I'm finished with this. No, I'm not quite
16 finished.
17 Water pools in the wrong direction in
18 the slab, is that professional and workmanlike?
19 A I don't understand your question.
20 Q Is it good and workmanlike to build a
21 slab where the water pools toward the house?
22 A I don't know. You would have to show me
23 an example of it. I don't know what you are
24 talking about.
25 Q Let's pull out the pictures, Exhibit No.
84
1 27.
2 MS. TABOR: Can we go off the record.
3 (Off the record.)
4 MR. MCKINNEY: I was going to refer him
5 to Exhibit 27, I think it is, the pictures.
6 MS. TABOR: I mean with specificity.
7 MR. MCKINNEY: Page 6, bottom left
8 picture, you see the water circle, damp,
9 dampness area there.
10 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
11 Q The pictures that I have are the actual
12 pooling against the water or against the wall of
13 the house; but my question is, isn't a slab
14 supposed to pool water away from the house?
15 A I'm not aware that slabs are supposed to
16 pool water, so I don't know what you're talking
17 about.
18 Q I mean run water off the slab.
19 A If the slab is level, then no, I don't
20 think it is supposed to drain water off in any
21 one direction or the other.
22 Q In the industry, what is usually done in
23 the case of slabs next to the house?
24 A I told you, I am not in the concrete
25 industry. I can only relate my personal
85
1 experience, as I did the day before we signed the
2 contract, what would be done. And it was done
3 according to those specifications.
4 Q Would you agree that it is installed
5 above the line --
6 A I guess so.
7 Q Do you agree that there is no footers?
8 A Footers in the sense of a foundation
9 below the slab?
10 Q Yes.
11 A I don't believe there is any -- there is
12 nowhere in the contract where I agreed to put a
13 foundation under the slab, footers or any such
14 thing.
15 Q Did you do any probing of the ground to
16 determine its capability to hold a slab?
17 A I simply walked on it like I walked on
18 many yards in the past. It looked like some good
19 old Georgia red clay, didn't seem to be an area
20 that was disturbed or back filled, same type of
21 situation where I poured slabs before, poured
22 additions for driveways, and that is the
23 experience that I bring to the table when I
24 looked at your backyard and looked at the soil in
25 that area.
86
1 Q So the answer is no?
2 A I just explained what I did as far as
3 probing, I mean, I walked. I looked at it, I
4 inspected it. There was never any agreement that
5 I would have some special probes to probe your
6 ground with, no.
7 Q Did you obtain a building permit?
8 A No, we didn't obtain a building permit.
9 I never told you I would, you never did ask for a
10 building permit.
11 Q Have you had the concrete slab inspected
12 by a qualified concrete inspector?
13 A No, I didn't have anyone inspect the
14 concrete slab -- I never agreed to have anyone
15 inspect the slab. I never told you I would have
16 anyone inspect the slab. I simply poured the
17 slab as I told you I would. And did it at cost
18 as a favor to you.
19 Q Is that stated in the contract?
20 A Is what stated in the contract?
21 Q That you were doing it as a favor?
22 A No, but I told you that in person.
23 Q Let's move on to the deck, same
24 exhibits, 19 and 20. And we can keep out Exhibit
25 27, the pictures.
87
1 Did you agree to build the deck to any
2 standards of the industry?
3 A I read all the specifications on the
4 work order. If you like, I can read them back to
5 you.
6 Q We are talking about the quality of
7 work. Did you agree to build the deck to code,
8 Gwinnett County's construction code?
9 A No, I did not.
10 Q What standards, what level of
11 professionalism did you tell defendant to expect?
12 A A functional deck that was a heck of a
13 lot better than the one you had up there.
14 Q But it would not meet any standards of
15 any sort?
16 A That would be fit for its use.
17 Q Would it be safe?
18 A Absolutely.
19 Q Have you read the two reports, Exhibit
20 19 and 20 as it concerns the deck?
21 A Yes, I am familiar with Exhibits 19 and
22 20, your hired inspectors and their analysis of
23 the deck.
24 Q Do you have any facts or evidence to
25 contradict what they are saying?
88
1 A Well, it seems that Exhibit No. 19
2 references an ICC code, and there's nothing in
3 our contract about preparing an ICC code, so I
4 would object to the statements that the landing
5 is less than required, that the staircase is less
6 than required. It is referencing a code that
7 wasn't part of our contract and I am not familiar
8 with, and so as far as I am concerned, it isn't
9 relevant.
10 Q Okay. Would you turn to Exhibit 8 -- I
11 am sorry, Exhibit 7. Are you familiar with that
12 document, have any personal knowledge of that
13 document?
14 A No, I am not personally knowledgeable of
15 this document.
16 Q Would you agree with any of the
17 specifications that are on that document?
18 A Are you asking me to go through each
19 sentence on this document and ask whether I agree
20 with it?
21 Q Let's address the one that you just
22 addressed. You've said the landing of the steps
23 is less than the required landing size; is that
24 correct? Do you agree with that?
25 A I said that there is nothing in our
89
1 contract to specify that the landing or the width
2 of the staircase, so therefore, there was no
3 violation of any agreement.
4 Q So is it your position that you did not
5 build a deck or the deck was not built according
6 to Gwinnett County construction codes?
7 A I just told you, I am not familiar with
8 every detail of this Gwinnett County construction
9 code. There is nothing in our contract that says
10 anything about the Gwinnett County codes relating
11 to the building of your deck.
12 I simply laid the specifications out in
13 the contract, and that's what we did.
14 Q Is it Insulated Wall Systems' position
15 that it can come into Gwinnett County and build
16 without building to county construction codes if
17 there are requirements?
18 A There is nothing in our agreement that
19 says I will do that.
20 Q Please answer the question.
21 A You are asking a hypothetical question?
22 Q If Insulated Wall Systems can come into
23 Gwinnett County and build structures that do not
24 meet the Gwinnett County construction code.
25 A We can come in and contract with a
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1 private individual to come in and build anything
2 they want to on the property, so unless I have
3 agreed in writing to specifically follow a
4 particular code then no, it wouldn't be relevant.
5 Q How large do you think a landing should
6 be?
7 A Where? On what? What are you talking
8 about?
9 Q The landing that you just referred to,
10 the landing of the steps is less than the
11 required landing size.
12 You think there should be some minimum
13 width that it should be?
14 A As long it serves the purpose of what
15 the deck is built for, and it is functional, and
16 you can walk on it, and you can stand on it, then
17 so be it.
18 If you want a particular dimension or
19 the width of the staircase all somebody had to do
20 is specify it. If you wanted a specific width or
21 height or any other specification of the landing,
22 all you simply had to do was specify it in the
23 contract.
24 You just can't arbitrarily determine
25 after the fact that you want it to some certain
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1 standards you haven't mentioned before.
2 Q Look on page 2 of Exhibit No. 7, even
3 though I didn't realize you didn't adhere to
4 that. Right in the middle of the page it says,
5 Minimal landing to be no less than 36 inches
6 square.
7 A Are you testifying, or do you have a
8 question?
9 Q No, I am pointing it to you. My
10 question is, why do you think that is there?
11 A This was probably a best case scenario
12 for someone who wants to build the best deck
13 possible. That is not what you contracted for.
14 You wanted to do the least expensive deck
15 possible that would still function for its
16 intended purpose.
17 There are lots of things you can add to
18 decks. You can add all kinds of metal hardware,
19 you can build extra supports, you can reinforce
20 it, you can build a $50,000 deck to your
21 dimensions, or you can build one at a very low,
22 reasonable cost and give you value for your
23 money, which is what Insulated Wall Systems did
24 for you.
25 So you can come back and complain that
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1 it wasn't done to the specifications for the best
2 built deck in Gwinnett County, you just didn't
3 pay for that. That's why you didn't get that.
4 Q What does money have to do with the size
5 of a landing 36 inches square?
6 A It has to do with every aspect of
7 construction.
8 Q How so? I fail to understand.
9 A You get what you pay for. What don't
10 you understand? If you want something done to
11 specific specification, then specify it. If you
12 specify that you wanted something more, then most
13 likely the greater the cost would be.
14 Q Do you think it is important to have the
15 stair treads the same size?
16 A Depends what you mean by the same size.
17 Q Same height, same rise -- let's take an
18 example.
19 A Here again --
20 MS. TABOR: Are you going to let him
21 answer the question?
22 THE WITNESS: In your situation, if you
23 demanded that each step be exactly six inches
24 or seven inches or eight inches with a
25 tolerance of one millimeter, then fine, you
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1 are free to specify that in the contract, and
2 I certainly would have walked away from
3 contracting with you at that point.
4 So all I can tell you is the deck was
5 built, the stairs are functional. An average
6 normal person can go up and down the stairs,
7 they can stand on the deck at any time. They
8 can jump up and down on it. It's not going
9 anywhere.
10 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
11 Q What facts or evidence do you have to
12 support this?
13 A I have walked on it myself.
14 Q How times have you walked on it --
15 MS. TABOR: Let him answer the question.
16 THE WITNESS: I walked on the deck. I
17 had an inspector out there to look at the deck.
18 BY MR. MCKINNEY:
19 Q What does your own inspector say, that
20 is Exhibit No. 21.
21 A Your question is what?
22 Q What does your inspector say about the
23 deck?
24 A Let's turn to page 3 of Exhibit 21. If
25 you go down to G under the title "Deck Balcony."
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1 First question is, is the deck properly attached
2 to the house? And the box yes has been checked.
3 Columns, adequate has been checked.
4 The decking itself, adequate has been
5 checked.
6 The steps and railing, inadequate,
7 however at the time my inspector looked at this,
8 the deck had been molested by the defendants.
9 Q Molested?
10 A I am not finished. The flashing is
11 adequate, and the framing is adequate. And that
12 is page 3.
13 Let me see if there is anything else
14 that you asked me about.
15 The inspection report summary states
16 that the rear wood deck/steps on concrete
17 footings, 4x4 inch pillars and PT framing. Deck
18 is mostly finished. However, some stair
19 balusters are to be finished. Cut to stair
20 angle.
21 Deck is flashed and attached to house
22 with bolts. Joists are on metal hangers. Hand
23 rail loose on deck sides, recommend add
24 additional bolt attachment at hand rail support
25 uprights. Block joists outside to limit